Welcome to another edition of Wrl Triangle and two. I'm Mark Bergen joined as always by my guy Luis Fernandez Lewis loaded pod today and I wanna get right into it. You're in Durham, Saturday, Cameron Indoor Stadium. And I wanna go to the moment that everyone's talking about in college basketball this weekend when Blake Hinson steps up on the scores table in front of the Cameron crazies. What was that moment like? Um, so I, I it's, if you watch the broadcast, you see my like yellow hoodie, I was wearing, like, pop up at the very end of it in the corner I was filming. Um, and I mean, it, it was, it was wild. It is exactly what you would expect it. But like, that's what's so cool about college basketball is when you get moments like that. Um It, it actually reminds me a bit like we got a really, really good college basketball last week in the Triangle, especially right where you had like, um, you had, uh, what's his name? DJ Horn? You know, flipping the double birds. You had, um, you know, Blake Kinson doing that after going seven of seven, like that's, it's ok. It's sports, it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be over the top. Um and, and it, it was, it was a huge moment. It was just really big. Um the commentary from Duke afterwards. I, I felt was like, you know, they, they said what they needed to say, right. Which was uh John Shire saying apologize, apologizing to the fans saying that's their fault, stuff like that isn't supposed to happen and you're supposed to defend home court, not give them the opportunity to do something like that because you beat them, right? Um Kyle Philippos said, hey, you know, it's like whenever someone was in Cameron, it's like, you know, their Super Bowl, it's like their championship game. Um you know, so those things happen, it's, he said it was disrespectful, but it just reminds us that we have to defend our home court is what he said and some people call that soft. I don't necessarily agree with that. Like, what else is he supposed to say? Right? I think if something can be disrespectful without like c like being bad, if that makes sense, what I and what I mean by that mark is that um it, it is a disrespectful gesture, but it's not like he's saying, oh, he shouldn't have done it. You know what I mean? Sports is all, there's all kinds of moments of disrespect and if you express that disrespected sports, you have to earn that disrespect. And Blake Hinson went seven of seven from three tying an AC C record, I believe for threes without make, made threes without a miss. It, it was just, he was unconscious. It was crazy. Yeah, the first time pitt, his beaten Duke at Cameron Indoor Stadium since 1979 year, two of John Shire coming off a year were in his first year undefeated at home at Cameron indoor Stadium. Now with two losses after Saturday night's game. And just that image is what sticks out to me. And I know uh a lot of the Dukes fans were, uh they were giving their version of the horns down gesture if you know what I mean, Lewis. Um Yes, I do. Uh I do. We, we had to uh find a creative way to try and blur the, the Cameron crazies. Uh when we put the, the video up, I don't wish that upon anyone. It's just like, oh, I missed one right there in the corner and it's like you do. Yeah, I mean, it's like I said, you know, it is what it is like, that's what, that's what sports is. I think when you look at the game itself, um you know, Duke dropped, I believe it was four or five spots in the A P pole. I want to say, um got that information in the notes, Lewis Un C Now to number three, we'll get to the tar heels in just a second but Duke now dropping to number 12 after Saturday. Yeah. So, I mean, the thing is, I think it's all about context. Right? No, Jeremy Roach. No Mark Mitchell. Mark Mitchell, they've kind of gone back and forth with not having this year. He's had some lingering knee issues. Um, the, the most recently the knee injury. Um but the Jeremy roach loss that really hurts Duke. Um because he's just, he is that guy when, when you are in need of a bucket, you give him the ball and say, hey, go, do it, go get it. Um The way he's a to create in the midrange is really what is really good. I mean, he's, he's, I think they're leading score. No, Phil POWs is a leading scorer, I believe. Roach is second two and three and I tried to warn you last week, Lewis when we recorded on Wednesday of, hey, keep an eye on the knee injuries for both players. I tried to warn you last week and you could go pop on the tape where it's like maybe you could say I jinxed Duke, I'll take it, but I tried to tell you exactly what was gonna happen. Fortunately for the Blue Devils, uh Shire said that they are getting closer there just wasn't enough time. Um After the game on um after the game on Sun on Saturday, excuse me, he said that um they just both hadn't had a chance to do 515 yet. And that was really what was keeping them, um, off the court. They play, uh at Louisville tomorrow night. So we'll see how the Blue Devils rebound. Um, because, uh when you look at the actual game itself mark, they didn't rebound super well, but they were minus seven in the rebounding differential. Um And it's just, I mean, Pitt was absolutely on fire. Uh, they were 10 of 20 from three. This is back to back games now that Duke has allowed a team to shoot 50% or better from three. Um, and both of those games you had 10 or more threes made, they gave up, but they were all. George Tech was 11 of 20 from three against them and a pitt was 10 of 20 from three against them. Um, so I, you know, the question is what I want to see now from Duke is, is this the start of a new trend? Were those kind of just like some, you know, blips on the radar? How is you going to improve their perimeter, uh, defense? Because that's, I mean, you're not gonna win many games when you don't have two of your best players. Uh, you, uh, give up 50% or better from three and you don't outbound, you know, your, your opponent and it's, you got you, it's still early, right? You still have a, a month and a half or so before the postseason, but it's it's starting to get to that point where you're like, I do, let's see if you can figure this out. Keep an eye on that Lewis final question on this game. To what do you like? A men's medium? Men's large? Get you a, uh, Blake Hinson Jersey. I know you're a UN C, no. Ok. First capital J journalist. But first I wish I was a men's medium. You kidding me? I'm a, I'm an XL. Um I'm, I'm an XL but no, I, uh I, yeah, no, I it's just, it was, it's wild because, well, Blake Hinson's also, uh I think he's a, a super senior. I want to say he's 24 years old. Um And so it's, there were a couple of times where you're watching, you see, you know, Jerry mccain. Um, you know, and Blake Hinson kind of going up against each other. Like, man, this is like a, a freshman versus someone who, you know, has to worry about filing for health insurance, you know, separate from parents type thing. Sometimes. It's, it is. Um, it, it, it's a little bit wild to see but he just, he, him and the Panthers just, they played that get under your skin, you know, type cards. So, well, they were like the perfect balance of villains who could back it up in that game. It was exactly the energy you need when you played Cameron. Yeah, absolutely. I'm looking forward to like music festivals. A year or two from now when you'll get a UN C fan behind the enemy lines in Durham or maybe a North Carolina Duke game. And you see Hinson Jersey out there from just a troll North Carolina fan. I can't wait for that day, Lewis. We need to move on if you spend money on a Blake Hinson Jersey for just solely for the purpose of trolling. That is we, we need to talk about how you spend your money. It's petty, it's petty. All right. Un C speaking of the Tar heels, hosting Wake for tonight and the Tar Heels up to number three Lewis, but it's a quick turnaround. Three games in what matter of six days are you worried about the trap game tonight at the Dean Dome in Chapel Hill? So II I don't know if I would necessarily call this a trap game because I think it's very much on Un C's radar. Right. Wake Forest is playing very well. Um I think they are, I want say like 38 in right now in Ken Palm, they're 36. Um, they have a lot of talent. It's just a matter of, you know, putting it all together now, right? They're two and two in their last four. But I think Wake Forest has the potential to be a very good team. They've, they've shown out on some occasions. Um So I don't know if it's necessarily a trap, but I do think it's a difficult game for those reasons that you put out there. I mean, third game in six days. Uh You saw, um UN C, you know, hang the, you saw UN C let Louisville come back in there a little bit, uh, on, what was that Wednesday. Um So, you know, it's, it's gonna be interesting for, for Carolina, that's for sure. What are your initial vibes off for this game? Mark? I'm just curious to see how long the streak can go for. You know, and it's just like I, I'm looking at the schedule where it's like, where are the games you slip up now for tonight? Wake Force has five double digit scores. So it, that and then is playing a lot of games consecutively. Does that wear and tear? Does that play a factor at any point? You're a 7.5 point favorite at home tonight? I'd imagine the tar heels win. But, you know, I said this last week of does North Carolina and Duke go into the first battle of the Blues meeting? I believe that's on February the third, the first week or Saturday, first Saturday in February is how long can you carry the win streaks into Duke now has lost and they've fallen in the A P poll. But, you know, as you get closer and closer to number one with North Carolina, when you're the top dog, you're the top dog in the conference right now. By two games heading into tonight's game, you're going to get everyone's best effort too. And what I mean by that is opponents are going to circle that on their calendar where you're going to be targeted. And we saw how North Carolina dealt with that last season compared to where they're at this season. And this season they're just playing a lot better basketball and they're playing basketball that people are accustomed to that are tar heels fans. Yeah, it's, it's gonna be so if, if we talk first, Wake Forest, right. Um, the one like, conversation that I feel like keeps on coming up about, uh, UN C is their defense and how much better they're playing defensively, uh, on Ken Palm right now. I think they are the number four overall, um, uh, adjusted defense or they're number four overall in adjusted defensive efficiency. And it's this, this three point shooting defense streak that has been, you know, a little bit absurd for the targets. I'm, I'm gonna run down. Right. So they've, they've won 12345678 games in a row, I believe. Right. And so is that right? 1234568 games in a row. And during that stretch, ok, the very first win in that stretch was against Oklahoma. They go seven of 23 from the outside. Ok. Uh, 10 of 25 pitt goes 10 of 25 from the outside. Ok. And then starting with Clemson, you've got five of 29 NC state, one of 18. Um, no, I'm sorry, five of 29 from Pittsburgh, uh NC State or Clemson, one of eight CNC state. One of 18, golly words are tough. Uh Pittsburgh was five of 29. Um You got like Syracuse was uh four of 19. Um Louisville made eight of 18, Boston College, three of 17. And so you've got a lot of these, the, the three point defense has been really, really good for UN C the question that people are asking is, is that people aren't making shots or is that, you know, what you can see is specifically doing in terms of defensive rotations, in terms of closing out and things like that. What do you think it is though, Louis, if you're asking the question, if you had to pick one, I mean, you, you can't say a little bit of both, but if you had to pick one side or the other, what would you pick? I think I wanna say that their defense is just better overall. It is, their defense is much better overall. I think the three point defense is legit. I don't know if it is this legit and what the litmus test is gonna be is tonight because Wake four is their top four scorers all shoot like at least 39% from three. They're one of the best three point shooting teams in the country. I think their, their three point field goal percentage is 10th in the country. I want to say, hold on. I just wrote it down. They shoot from three. they shoot 39.3% as a team from three. So it's really gonna be tested uh against the demon deacons. And so we're gonna find out a lot about it tonight, I think, not just that but for Wake Forest this season year four of Steve Forbes, the head coach there, they haven't made the NCAA tournament under Forbes yet. So it's like this is a big game where it's like, do you wanna break that streak? Go on the road beat number three North Carolina in state big big game tonight, Lewis. Um, any final thoughts and then we'll get to some football action. I just, just that, I think Wake Forest is going to come with haymakers in this game. Um, like you said, they need the signature win. They've been on the bubble with Steve Forbes a lot. Steve Forbes is a good coach but they, they gotta get over the hump and they have a lot of talent, a lot of talent on this team. There are some interesting matchups with UN C so I'm, I'm excited to see it. I think it'll be a good game. All right, Lewis, I got a fever and the only prescription is more football down to four teams. AFC championship Chiefs Ravens, NFC 49er. Lions. Who do you like to win the Super Bowl? Now that we're down to four teams, Lewis, I mean, I, I think it's not a unique thought. My favorite is Baltimore. Wow. Ok. I, I think that, that, I, I don't think that that's a unique thought. You have an all first team, all pro quarterback and you have a uh number one scoring defense, one of the best EPA defenses. Here's, here's a staff for you. I saw this in an ESPN article um that, so I, I apologize for not giving the exact offer, but it was from ESPN. Only three teams in the past for the NFL have had a first team all pro and a number one scoring defense. Um They're the, the Ravens are the fourth team to do that since 1970. All three teams have won the Super Bowl. So Lamar Jackson is just, he is, what was that, that one quote? I like my quarterbacks to be more quarterback. He's very quarterback, he's very quarterback. Lamar Jackson is, is proving to be one of the best uh quarterbacks in the NFL. I mean, if you didn't know that before, that's, you just don't know ball. Um But uh I, I think it's gonna be so exciting to watch him and Patrick Mahomes uh on Sunday. Um It's, it's gonna be a really good game. Um But I just, I think it's got to be the Ravens, right? Is there, is there someone else. You're thinking, Mark, I think it's gonna be 49er and Chiefs and I'll take the 49er to win the Who? Yeah, it's just like the conspiracy theorist in me is like, the NF L's gotta get Taylor in the big game and all the cameras and like, I don't know about you but like it felt like Travis Kelsey was just showing off for his girlfriend in that Bills game last night. He Travis Kelsey was he needed that bat. The Chiefs needed that bag because he's been struggling a little bit this year. Two touchdowns was, it was good for him. That's the thing that made no sense watching that Bills game was like, the Chiefs offense has been bad this year. Like Mahomes has the most drops of any quarterback in the league and it's like, listen, he can't throw the ball to himself and the Bills. I mean, you had the fake punt where they're not able to convert, even though Kansas City only has 10 players on the field. Mccole Harman fumbles in the end zone. It's like the Bills had every opportunity the kicker goes wide, right, which was exactly like the Super Bowl back in the day. And it's like reliving history, what a tortured fan base for Buffalo. And it's like the analogy I'd make to you Lewis for people that like, no, no sports wide right in yesterday's playoff game was like, if the Boston Red Sox fans had to relive Bill Buckner 35 years later and they still hadn't won like that. That's what we're talking about in terms of what happened in last night's game when the kicker misses a 44 yard or wide. Right. Jim Nance crushed that call by the way. He, he, it was so good. It was so good. Um, yeah. No, I think, I think so much of it was just, the Bills defense has been all season, so hurt so injured and that's what ended up happening. That's, that's what, you know, kind of came to, came to pass for the Bills was the Chiefs were able to do what they wanted because that the defense was um limited and because Patrick Holmes is, you know, the best quarterback in the NFL but, and that's because III I like that we're kind of, you know, crisscrossing a little here when it comes to who we think is the, the best team right now because I will say this right as, and, and you, you know, following the Steelers a lot, you understand this too. The Ravens defense is so good. It is so good and the Chiefs defense is also so good. So it's gonna be two really good. You're getting two high level defenses and you're getting two high level quarterbacks playing on the field at the same time in Baltimore. I think it's gonna be huge. I I say this though, the, the Chiefs defense, if there's one place to attack them. It is in the running game. Um They are, I think 26th in EPA on designed runs. Um And so, you know, Baltimore is great balance, they can run the ball very well, whether it be with the running backs or whether it be with Lamar Jackson. Um And I just ii I this to me just feels like the moment when the Ravens finally get over that hump with Lamar get to the Super Bowl. Um And you know, I think Patrick Mahomes is a magician, but there's a big difference between doing what he did against the Bills and doing what he did against the Ravens. That's well said Lewis where I'm at, is this in a big game? Do I trust Patrick Mahomes more than I trust Lamar? And that's where I'm like, every year Mahomes has been a starter. The Chiefs have played in the AFC championship. That is crazy like that is like a is getting away with this. The AFC championship is the Patrick Mahomes invitational like straight up. And even if Tyler Bass had made the field goal, two minutes left and two time outs like, oh Mahomes is gonna go down and the Chiefs get the game winning score and the Bills lose in even more heartbreaking fashion and, oh, Mark, why do you say this? Well, just a year ago, he did it and he had 13 seconds left on the clock. So we can't do it with like two minutes left. It's like, and, and I thought that this was the game for Buffalo Joe Burrows hurt. This is gonna be their year and it's like they, they were one of the hottest teams going into the, uh, the playoffs. Like if, if there was gonna be a year where this iteration of the Buffalo Bills was gonna get over the hump and finally be Patrick Holmes in the playoffs. It felt like it was gonna be that game last night, but it wasn't. But yeah, so that I until Mahomes proves he can't do it. I, I'm not going against him. So it's like it's an oversimplification because, and I will concede in yesterday's result. Didn't make any sense. I liked Buffalo in yesterday's game going in, but it's just like I've seen this again. They flip the switch and, and I'll say this to Isaiah Pacheco just, I was about to say the same dad. He runs mad. He, I, uh gosh, I think it was the, it was, it was the Chiefs game, like one of the last Chiefs games of the regular season where he had like one of those long runs and is someone overlaid it with like cartoon running music because he's got, he, he runs mad, but he also runs like kind of like a cartoon character. It's, it's so funny. It's such a very unique running style and he's so good at it when like, when, when when the Chiefs needed to pick up a first down and I was ok. Ok. This is over because Isaiah Pao is not gonna get tackled and lo and behold. Um I, I will say this though. Um Me going Ravens is less doubting Patrick Mahomes and more, you know, appreciating what Baltimore is doing right now that if you go through the overall body of work this season, I get your argument, Lewis. I do have to ask you about the NFC. Who do you like there? Um, so the UFC is a little more of a, I, it's interesting because I think that the 49er will win because I just think that they are gonna, the, the Lions have been in some tight games, um, in the playoffs. Um, obviously, well, the 49er only played one game so far and it was tight, but I just feel like watching the Lions all season, there was more volatility. You saw them go up and down a little bit more, their style of play just led for closer games. Whereas the 49ers have been like the model of efficiency and consistency. Um, so I think the last time I checked the, the line and we're recording this on January 22nd, I think the line was like, uh, uh, San Francisco minus seven. I don't know if that, that's one of those things where I'm like, yes, but at the same time, I can very much see the lines making it closer because the defense is not the standard San Francisco defense that we're used to. They are good against the pass. Obviously, they have a great pass rush, but they are susceptible to the running game. And when you've got Jamir Gibbs and David Montgomery with Lions, I think that that's a great place to attack. Jared Goff has played. Well. The Lions do play a lot differently on the road than they do in Detroit. That is, I think an important point. Um And then if, if Debo Samuel does not play, I also think that is a huge, a huge, you know, Red X on San Francisco when they struggled midway through the season, the two players that were not playing for Debo Samuel and Trent Williams and that is when they struggled the most. So you'll still have Trent Williams, but Debo brings a the physicality, he brings an explosion um to that offense that Brandon and you is having his best year, but it's just Debo brings a little bit extra oomph. But as long as long as Christian mccaffrey keeps doing his thing, that's also hard to, hard to combat. Can you imagine if the Lions make it to the Super Bowl? Isn't it wild? I, I love it. If, if it were up to me, if it were up to me, you would have like the, the all the teams that have never won a Super Bowl. I just want to rattle them off one after one. If it could have been Lions and Bills, it would have just been like, for ratings wouldn't have been good. But just for like, someone who's just like, seized tortured fan bases year in year out, like seeing the Lions home field advantage the last two weeks has been special because you're talking about, ok, the last time they've hosted playoff games, the last time they've won playoff games, they've won a playoff game for the first time in our lives. Lewis the first time in the last like 30 plus years, I think it was 91. Yeah, we neither of us were alive. No, no. That's, I, I feel like I feel like this bond of, of big cat love. You know what I mean? Because the, the I am a Bengals fan for those of you who do not know. Um And so the Bengals essentially did this like two years ago. And so it, it's so cool to see a team that has not had a lot of postseason success string it together, have a magical run and kind of awaken that. And I, I think it's awesome to see. I, I will be rooting wholeheartedly for the Detroit Lions. Um, but it's, it'll all come down to, can you stop Christian mccaffrey? Can you run the ball well, and you know, can you force Brock Purdy into a negative game, script situations where it's third and long when you know, there are when they are down in the game, when they're forced to pass Salon and the run isn't as effective or as important because that's not just the Brock Party, that's just the Shanahan offense in general. You put them in negative game scripts and it is a lot more difficult for them to do what they like. The only problem is the 49 ers are like the most efficient offense in the NFL this year. So, well, the look, allow me to add one to your list to Lewis. You can bite off more kneecaps than your opponent as well. What a, what a legend. What, what a Detroit legend, Dan Campbell has turned into, I was watching that press conference. I was like, when he first, when he first was introduced, I was like, oh man, I don't know about this guy, man. I don't know about this but he's what, what he's done and what Detroit in general, their general manager, what is, what is going on? It's been, it's a really fun thing to see more than just a ra ra coach in all seriousness, cannot wait for the conference championship games and I'll say this too. This is my final thought with the NFL playoffs before we sign off here. Just give us Chiefs and Bills every year in the playoffs. Just, just do it, pencil that in the two teams I know will play in the 2024 regular season, but come postseason. Mahomes and Alan, I'd love to see Alan just get one on Patrick Holmes. It's almost like the modern day Brady versus Manning. But that, the game always lives up to the Bill every single time. Pencil it in, give that to us in the playoffs because yet again we had a classic on Sunday. I, this is, this is my bias kicking in. Mark. I don't, I just wanna throw us out there. I don't think Mahomes and Alan is Brady Manning. I think it's a very good matchup. I don't think it's that, I think that you, if I, I would agree in that situation that Mahomes is the Brady. But you know, I always think you gotta, you gotta remember Joe Burrow, people are forgetting that the Chiefs and the Bengals met, uh, two years in a row in the AFC championship game. But look, look, we could talk to sundown about this too, but add CJ Stroud to that mix if the Chargers finally get it right with the head coach with Herbert. Like we talked about this before the start of the season of OK, what are the, the Panthers are gonna do at quarterback in the NFC? We talked about like the elite of the elite in terms of quarterbacks in the AFC compared to the NFC. But I, I mean, we've talked about this before. Lewis is my point. My, my very last thought and this is one more kind of hot take Mahomes is gonna get his, he's already got, you know, two rings. He's probably gonna get a couple more in his career at least. But when you look back on this generation of quarterbacks, especially in the AFC, I think you're gonna have a lot of guys who would have won a lot more rings if they played in any other time frame because you're gonna have a lot of quarterbacks. I think we're just gonna cannibalize at each other's postseason success. You're gonna have one year I Mahomes, you know, will win it again. I'm sure very soon. And then you're gonna have one year where Allen finally breaks through and maybe the Bills get it and then you're gonna have one year when CJ Stroud upsets the party and then maybe Trevor Lawrence figures it out and then maybe Joe Burrow gets his and then maybe Justin Herbert and the Chargers figure like you're gonna have a lot of just, and that's not even including like, you know, the next iteration of quarterbacks that are coming into the league as these, as this generation gets older. Arch Manning Arch Manning enough. Don't even enough said, don't even need to say anything else. Lewis, this has been another edition of Wrl Triangle too. If you like this show, tap the subscribe button on the 99 9, the fan, youtube page five stars and five stars only on Apple and Spotify. Lewis always a lot of fun chopping it up with you and enjoy the game tonight. UN C against Wake Forest. I'll sign off for the both of us for Luis Fernandez. I'm Mark Bergen. Thanks for watching WRL Triangle Two.