So I guess I'm just curious, you know, how did you go from playing to coaching to them becoming a draft analyst? Yeah, it kind of happened unexpectedly actually, Patrick and what happened was so I've been a quarterback all of my life. My dad actually signed me up surprisingly for Pop Warner. When I was little, I was a basketball player growing up and he just felt as if I wasn't tough enough. So he tricked me and told me that we were going to the park one day and it really was football sign ups in High point north Carolina, which is a small town right by Winston Salem. So that's really how I got involved in football and it just took off from their quarterback is the only position that I've ever played growing up, never played any other position. I grew up in Winston Salem, north Carolina right by the way for us. I'm sure everybody's heard of that before. Obviously then played quarterback at north Carolina Central University, which is a FCS school right by Duke in Durham, North Carolina. So started for three years, there ended up playing for four and then got right into coaching after that didn't have any pro aspirations or anything like that. Coach for five years was a graduate assistant for two um coach, quarterbacks and running backs while I was there at my alma mater was able to, I learned a lot, was fortunate enough to win three. Meac Championships with coach Jerry Mack, who's at the University of Tennessee now, doing a really good job with the running back there. So after that We gotta let go in 2018 and unfortunately that's just what happens with coaching. So I wanted to figure out a way to journalism is something I've always been interested in and also the NFL draft, but I just could never attack it with a full head of steam just because I was always focused on my academics and also obviously being a quarterback on the college level two is very tedious. There's a lot that goes into that. So once I got done with coaching, I wanted to do something that I've always had a lot of interesting, which was the NFL draft and back when it was two days long, if you remember, it was from Sunup to sundown and you're watching guys like Mel, Kiper and Todd McShay, um two of my colleagues now, I'm still crazy to say that actually, but I've always had an affinity and a love for the NFL draft and I was that kid that just sat in front of the tv, Sunup to sundown watching and my parents would literally have to beg to go outside and play during those two days. They just would wonder why I was sitting in front of the Tv so long. But it's just something that I've always loved scouting is something that I've always loved to and my final two years coaching at central, I was fortunate enough to be uh the recruiting coordinator there, so that's really where I fell in love with scouting And then in 2018 I just started writing, I started a Twitter account and then I got the courage enough to just start publishing my stuff and put it out there on a blog on blogger dot com and I'm not even sure That even exists anymore, but on blogger.com, I just started putting stuff out there writing scouting reports, some strengths and weaknesses. And before you know it, I got an opportunity with some, some lowly websites getting $5-10 per article writing for them. And then a company called the draft network came and they offered me a full time position, which is where I was up until november of last year, I was there for 2.5 years and then ESPN unexpectedly came out of nowhere and they offered me the job. So I'm just fortunate enough to be in the position that I am in today. Yeah, that's crazy story man. Um and awesome to see. Um I guess I'll have you mentioned working with Todd McShay and Mel Kiper? I mean, how much of a trip is it especially Mel Kiper right, who like basically started the whole business, I mean to be working alongside him and what's that like? Yeah, I have to pinch myself sometimes and just see it like, is this really my reality? Somebody that I grew up Just admiring male has been doing this since 1984, so well before I was even born. So just he's just a wealth of knowledge, he's encyclopedia of the NFL draft, he's the godfather, that's what I like to call him. But he's been an open book for me as well as tom and Shay Todd has been awesome as well. The first time I met Todd was actually at Liberty's Pro day, we were both watching Malik Willis together. So both of those guys have been awesome as well as my other colleague Matt miller, somebody else that I grew up admiring too. So like I said, I just have to pinch myself sometimes that I'm actually colleagues and coworkers, all three of those guys. So I think the beauty of the draft and I think one of the reasons it's such a phenomenon is because we all kind of think we could do it right. Like the hit rate even among the best is isn't isn't great, even one of the teams and and draft analysts. So for you kind of what goes into making a mock draft and how do you try to like separate yourself from, you know, the all the joe Schmoes out there that think they can do what you try to do. Yeah, I mean there's a lot that goes into it honestly and I've always been told that like the hit rate for the draft process and then just taking prospects as a whole, it's kind of like batting average for baseball players and that if you hit anything around 40% you're doing a pretty good job. So it's just fun exercises to do. Honestly, I love doing my draft. I love projecting guys to the next level because it's all an educated educated guess. Excuse me. That's what it really all comes down to now. Everybody does it a little different. Um, how much do you talk to teams and even when you do that, you kinda have to wait with a grain of salt versus, you know, your own scouting reports and team needs. Like, how do you kind of way all these different things that go into where you slot guys? Well, the great thing about being a recruiting coordinator, my final two years when I was at north Carolina Central, I was able to developed some really good relationships with scouts coming in and out of the building and I still keep in contact with a lot of those guys today. So even though I'm not necessarily inside of the league, I get a lot of different opinions from different teams talking to my friends throughout the league, bouncing ideas back and forth from them as far as about certain guys. I'll say, Hey, what do you think about this guy? What do you dislike or what do you like about this guy? So little things like that. That open discussion is always great to have, especially when you're getting so many different opinions and it's just funny with the NFL draft, everybody's watching the same prospects, but you can see things completely different as far as what you like, what you dislike. Is there something to build upon with this prospect or is it just something that you just don't have a great feel for? So I think that's the great thing about the draft process and I talked to plenty of guys throughout the league and I was able to develop those relationships, Excuse me when I was at north Carolina Central. So you obviously played quarterback? I imagine that has to inform your evaluations of quarterback, which is what you guys are asked about the most. I mean, how have you kind of developed your own philosophy for how you evaluate quarterbacks? Well, it's kind of those things where you just have a natural feel for especially playing the position, There's certain things that I look for as far as decision making, the accuracy. Those are two essential points that I look for when I'm talking about quarterbacks are just studying quarterbacks in general. If you don't have those two, I don't think it's gonna be very successful in the NFL or on the next level just because they're very hard to improve and build upon those things. But with quarterbacks, it's just seeing it from a different lens, especially playing and coaching it. And then also now scouting it. Um, it's just being able to see the position from so many different lenses and I think that's why I'm kind of unique as an evaluator just because I can put myself in those guys shoes, especially when they make a mistake or if they make a positive play, I can see why they made that type of play or if it was, if it was a situation where they made a mistake, what went behind that or what possibly was his thought process to, um, you know, a guy that's getting a lot of attention on here somehow and he's such an interesting prospect to me because maybe a year ago he looked at as like maybe the number one guy off the board and now I think you and most of the guys have them around fifth. Um, for me, I think some of that is how he played this year and he talked to the background and he'd say like, you know, he did whatever he had to do to win, he kind of ran the ball more, maybe held onto the ball too long maybe. And I look at it, it's like bad habits that he developed and that's hurting them now. I mean how do you kind of makes sense of the prospect that is somehow because he seems to be a polarizing one. Yeah, he's been one of the harder ones to figure out. But I think for Sam, I think this was a really good learning year for him just because they lost over 90% of their offense from a season ago. They lost the top four weapons in Miami Brown and Dad's newsom on the perimeter as well as Javonte Williams and Michael Carter in the backfield. So that was a big adjustment for Sam and outside of Josh downs. He really didn't have any good chemistry with any of the guys that he was throwing too. So the first game he goes out and he throws three interceptions against Virginia Tech and it kind of spiraled for him a couple of games after that. But he got back on track during the middle parts of the year and I thought he finished the year really strongly to, I like the way he played in the ball game against south Carolina. I thought he played pretty well for the most part considering the elements and then what it was surrounded with throughout the year. He does play the quarterback friendly offense with offensive coordinator, Phil long ago, lot of run pass options, a lot of elementary type of reeds where he doesn't have to go through those third or fourth type of options on the progression or fulfilled reads. He wasn't really asked to do a whole bunch of that. But I think what he learned the most is that How dynamic of a Russia he can be and I think that's something that he had to put on his shoulders and up until last season he only had 180 career restaurants last season alone, he had over 800. So that just goes to show you that he put so much more on his shoulders and Sam has a lot of fans throughout the league. He's there's a lot of people that are much higher on him as far as in the league as opposed to the media and I worked as pro day for a sec network and just talking to some quarterback coaches from some QB needy teams throughout the league. They were saying that this is the best pro day from start to finish. That they saw many of the guys during the pro day cycle. So he has a lot of fans throughout the league and what surprised me if he ends up going in the back end of the first round or early second round. I was looking at twitter earlier. Um you called the panthers the most interesting team in the draft. I mean, what do you make of where they're at? And I don't, you probably, maybe Mr scott fitterer talked a little earlier, He said he talked to Sam donald about, you know, they're looking at possibly drafting a quarterback. So I don't know how do you make sense of where they're at and what their options are going to be from drafting? Well, I said they're interesting just because they don't have a lot of draft capital, especially early on only having one pick inside the top 130 overall selections. We're sitting at number six overall. I think scott fitterer has a lot of things that he wants to do. I don't even think he knows exactly what he wants to do though. I think there's some options on the table that could go off and tackle. Whoever is left between the big three of Evan neal from Alabama, Charles cross of Mississippi state and then the local guy came in Quanzhou from anti state. I think he could be in play there for them as well. They have a need at left tackle even though they took brady Christensen from BYU in the second round a year ago. I feel as if these other three guys are a significant upgrade from him and then I don't even think think it was if he's an offensive tackle, I think they want to play them more so inside at guard too. So we'll see what does happen with that quarterback is obviously the big area of need and concern for them. They just can't put cam Newton sam donor to P. J. Walker out there as a starter next year, especially with matt rule on the hot seat entering next year. He has to win right away. So there's going to be a bunch of options for them. Whether it's at number six overall or if they want to trade back and just a couple more questions for you mentioned icky. I saw you have him as your top tackle. Um you know what makes him what makes him special? Just the combination of character he has off the charts character. I mean he has an infectious personality. It didn't take long for everybody to be engaged with him at his combine podium session. He talked about his background of being in the chorus. Um being the last leg of on the track team. Just little things like that. He has a very very infectious and upbeat type of personality. So character is off the charts. The athleticism is something I think is really good running in the low four nines at six ft 4 £320 is outstanding for his size and then just the power and the aggression that he plays with. I think he's the best finisher of any offensive lineman in this draft class And then also the position of flexibility. There's some scouts that feel as if he can be a high level guard while other skills if he could be better at offensive tackle. I think he's firmly an offensive tackle. He proved that a season ago and he was the anchor of the anti state offensive line. And it's just funny how these guys careers end up just because he had a twin brother that plays linebacker, Notre dame and that's the person that everybody recruited. But it's the chemo Cuando that ends up being Most likely a top five selections on draft day And the last thing is just you know there's been a lot of raised awareness about H. B. C. U. S. And um you know, more prospects going to those types of schools. Do you see any guys to reach BC us that could make an impact in the NFL draft this year? Yeah, we could see as many as five guys actually selected and we've only had one over the past two seasons. Latavius simmons from um he was at Tennessee state, he ended up being selected by the Chicago bears. I believe it was 1/7 round in 2020. So just trying to get more awareness to HbCU is there's a lot of talent throughout the NFL right now where there's Darius Leonard who was at south Carolina State, we saw what he has been able to do, getting a $100 million contract with the Indianapolis Coach Javon Hargrave has done a really good job with the philadelphia eagles. He just recently signed an extension a couple of years ago which made him one of the higher paid interior defenders in the NFL. And there's plenty of other guys throughout the league that are succeeding too. But I think there's five guys that could be selected if I had to guess, probably the highest ranked HBCU player right now is Joshua Williams from Fayetteville State was a cornerback. He stole the show at NC State's pro day at kima. Quanto only bench pressed at the wolf packs pro day. But Joshua Williams, they allowed him to participate, which is great on their part and he stole the show. I thought he'd fit in really nicely. The next one is the Kobe Durant from South Carolina State. The bulldogs have done a really good job of pumping out that talent into the NFL as I talked about with Hargrave and also Leonard, The Covid Durant is just the next guy in line. Markey's bill from florida a and M who's a safety. That's another guy that has a chance to get drafted probably in the 4th and 5th round and then Jittery Carter from southern. There's another guy that I think could go probably in the fifth or sixth round so there could be as many as four or five guys that end up getting drafted this year from HBc and just a fun thing to end on. I've seen a love it. Our show joke about this type of thing before with like March Madness like you guys get, you can get a little robotic because you could ask the same things all the time if I just make, if I just make up a guy like Aquafina Durant. But you know, what would you say? Did you just fire off a made up like prospect thing about Aquafina Durant. No, I mean you do your homework, you know, some of these names and you know if I didn't study a guy, I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to make up anything of where I didn't study them. So that's the thing. I've always been honest and truthful and transparent about it. I'm always going to give an honest assessment of a player that I studied. But if I didn't study, study him or evaluate him, I'm not going to give a false impression about, Yeah, I'm sure that it kind of wakes you up and I'm like, oh, I gotta look up this guy and there's always something you can prepare for. Uh, well I appreciate your time man. This is great. We'll do it right up a little article, tag you in it and best of luck to you, you're doing great work. So I appreciate your time.