Family. It's time for a true look at your world. Let's get hooked up for Pack Therapy. Here's your host, Tim Donnelly and Graham Hill. Welcome to an edition of the Pack Therapy podcast. I'm Tim Donnelly. Graham Hill along with us. As always, I think, you know, I was thinking about this podcasts weren't around 41 years ago. So there is a better than 0% chance that on a, a weekly following the NC State Wolfpack on a podcast like this one. This is the first time this will ever be said, the North Carolina State Wolf pack are headed to the final four. That's wow, that's a really fair assessment. I mean, I mean, this might be the first time anyone could text the NC State Wolfpack are headed to the final four. It wasn't around 41 years ago. First time somebody sent an email about the NC State wolfpack being sent to the final four today or yesterday, right? Or late at night or from the Bell Tower where Graham was in the middle of the night, whatever time it was whatever time it was, this is the first first time in a long time that the NC State wolfpack, that, that program that has been through so much that it's had so many good players, so many NBA players since then, first time, they can say they're one of the four teams left standing in the men's basketball NCAA final four, stand up and take a bow. It's fun to say it is, it is fun to say, by the way, like, subscribe, share this podcast everywhere you can. We greatly appreciate it. Uh Graham, you were at the Bell Tower last night, I slept there. I mean, not really. It was, it was there during sleeping hours. Um By the way, NC State beat Duke did so handily if you haven't seen it, it's strange that you're listening to the NC State P Therapy podcast. Uh But if you haven't seen it, if you haven't paid attention, it was a victory that looked like better team one. It was a victory that was owned by DJ Burns. It was a victory that, that I believe was cathartic and, and therapeutic pack therapy for a lot of pack fans where, where some metaphorical monkeys were ripped off of backs, some weights were taken off of their chest. It was a big moment for, for Wolfpack Nation. You guys are kind of going to see a little bit behind the scenes here at Pet Therapy. We're gonna pull the curtain back a little bit, Tim and I usually don't plan these podcasts out. We don't know what, how, what that speaks about careers. But I mean, where do we start at? Is this gonna be more of an analysis? Is this more of a celebration? Is it reflection? Are we gonna laugh, cry? Are we're gonna hug each other at some point? I mean, Tim thinking back on it, one thing that I've kind of find myself doing at night when I'm trying to go to bed is I'll go back. What I've started doing is I'll go back and listen to some of our previous episodes and then your wide, they're so, so magnetic and dynamic that and they're so good, which is why you should like, share and subscribe. But I'm just thinking to myself like, all right, how it started versus where we're at. Like, it's just so crazy to think about. I'm, I'm gonna take it one step further. It's not even where it started. It's where it finished versus where they're at or where it's going. It's, it's not like where they, if you would have told me they were going to be one of the 25 best teams in the country at the beginning of the year. I might believe you, there's a lot of talent on that team and, and, and we, we, I mean, you go back and listen to the podcast. Uh If you would have told me that I could, I would have felt I was being optimistic about NC State by saying there's almost no way they're gonna make the final four. It's, it's truly, and this is why sports are so great. This is why this run is so great. It is truly truth is stranger than fiction. If, if you were writing like an underdog scrappy movie, you would have had to give them more moments of, of excitement throughout the season to make this possible. Or else it would feel like, oh, that's just some scriptwriter, wrote it. Oh, this is how they're gonna play, uh Purdue in the final four. Ok. Yes, I'm just gonna say the word final four as many times as I can because it's fun to say we have it on a graphic here. If you're watching on youtube uh graphic here, I got a point in the right direction. There you go. If you're writing on youtube, uh they're gonna be playing, uh Purdue. This is a sick graphic, by the way. Shout out to video, Joe. Yeah, super sick graphic. But, uh, uh Purdue has four losses all season. They, they have four losses over the entirety of their season. NC State had four losses in their final four regular season games and, and they're at the same place with the same 1/4 opportunity to go win a national championship that doesn't happen except for, for the Wolf Pack and, and, and this is the way that, that it has to happen for them, right? The, the, the first uh final four since, since, uh, Jimmy V, right. Since Valvano, it was not gonna be where they were like a one seed and they just mowed down worse opponents. Right. It was gonna be when they were an 11 seed. It was gonna be where not, not one of the years where they had Dennis Smith junior, not one of the years where they have a super exciting recruiting class or, or, you know, Julius Hodge coming back, it wasn't gonna be a year where everybody's expectations were high. It was gonna be a year where they didn't have high expectations to live up to, but they had rock bottom expectations and flew by them at 100 miles an hour and that's where they are and that's where they should be. Right. It's, it's very NC state. Right. It's, it's, I can't tell you how many times people and the funny part is, uh, you know, I'm relatively new to on air here, been following the teams for a long time, but relatively new to on-air here in the scheme of things. Right. Uh, everybody keeps telling me about NC state stuff. Right. And, and whether you believe in it or not, you believe in the curse or not, you believe in this or not NC state stuff. This, this postseason run has been the good stuff. Right. It's been, oh, look at this, Oakland's gonna take care of Kentucky before you have a chance to play them. That's pretty fortuitous. Oh, look at this Kyle Filipowski is gonna foul out with five minutes left and I know you had something to do with it, but still, that's pretty fortuitous. Right. Michael o'connell's shot against U VA in the AC C championship. That's NC state stuff. It's, it's different flavors. Right. The old NC State stuff might have tasted bad. The NC state stuff on this run, uh, is, is the, the good breaks, right. The things out of their control are maybe a little lucky have been going their way, which is, is new, refreshing and it only happened when they reached absolute rock bottom and their coach's job was on the line, uh, which feels like it was three months ago. It was 20 days ago. I, there was somebody in the last pack there that myself and Corey Smith did while you had birthday responsibilities, by the way, I hope, I hope your son had a great birthday number three. And he was saying to call this team dominant in the NCAA tournament was bad on our part because of relying on a prayer buzzer beater from Michael o'connell in the AC CCC tournament. Right. Right. Right. Right. Let Oakland take you to overtime and then he listed one of the thing, maybe it was let more kick come out to the game. But is it fair to say? And it's kind of a chalk? I guess it could be a chalk take. But I've always just been under the belief that good teams know how to win when they shouldn't, especially in a postseason scenario. And NC State to me is a really freaking good basketball team. To me, the, the U VA game is, is the one that you can't. They had a good free throw shooter on the line with five seconds left and a three point lead the win winning. That one is, is pulling a rabbit out of your hat. But part of it is, and, and this is the part that needs to be commended is when opportunities arise through luck by, by whatever way necessary you have to be prepared to take advantage of it. Think of what they had to do to get the opportunity to be lucky against U VA. Think of what they had to do since then to make that lucky break worth something, right? Because if, if they, they, you know, hit the shot, Michael o'connell becomes a legend flexes on them, then they lose the next, the next game. It's like a fun. Oh, yeah. Story, right. It's, it's like, oh yeah, that one year they almost pulled it off, but they, they beat North Carolina in the AC C championship. Then they, they take care of Texas tech. Sure did. They let Oakland back in the game and it goes to the, the, the, the overtime period. Yeah. But if you watched that game, NC State was the better team, right? And, and to me that's why the U VA game is the one like they, you know, every run needs a break to go their way. Other than that, every single game, they've just been the better team, right. Both games against Duke. They were the better team against Oakland. They were the better team that let their foot off the gas, which is something you need to fix, but they're still the better team. That's the crazy part about it, you can say, right, because a lot of people were discrediting their run or discrediting the Ac C's run, uh, in the NCAA tournament as like March gets wacky. What is it? Nine games in 19 days? That's nine games is a big enough sample size. That's not just wacky, that is a good team playing. Well, they figured it out at the last possible second against all odds, but it's not just a wacky. March. It's, it's not, it is a, um, very impressive March and then now we're into April and it's, it's the only reason you're playing there is because you're a good team. It, it can't just be. Oh, yeah, March is crazy. These things happen. I'm glad we're kind of on the same agreement of this as far as you can. Look at those scenarios of how maybe they escaped with a win, how they got by with a win. But at the end of the day, nine wins is nine wins. Nobody's gonna care about how you did it all that's gonna, all they're gonna care about is that right there? So, Minecraft Lover 680928, whatever your user name is, I appreciate your analysis. But at the end of the day, say what you want about NC State, they're going to the final four. Chances are your team isn't. So that's just that, that is what it is to me, to me nine wins is not a fluke. It can't be, no, it can't be like the, the greatest Cinderella stories. The whoa, how crazy are like four games, right? That's, that's Saint Peter's, that's fairly dick like 12 games, U NBC, one game. This is not a A, oh my gosh, they keep getting lucky. This is not like you're flipping a coin and it's land on heads 17 times. This is uh flipping a coin and it landed on heads 100 and 30 times. And, and that means you got a trick coin, right? Don't, don't buy the ho ho how crazy is this? This is, this is a team that, that skews the odds in their favor. Um And, and part of that is they just, they clicked, you know, I, I, one thing I want to give us credit for and we were wrong about this team in a lot of ways and I can comfortably say that when I was advocating for maybe DJ burns plays a little less because he's such a liability on defense. Huh? Hand up. That guy should play more as much as his, uh, cardiovascular system. Can, can leave him on the, on the court. You play that guy hand up? I was wrong. But I will say even in the, the darkest moments of the, of the state season, one thing that we stayed pretty clear on was the whole season always was gonna come down to, could they find that chemistry when you bring in as many new faces and mixed? Like, you know, even, even the DJ burns, they haven't been at state for four years, right? They're all transfers, they're all in here new, uh, like when you bring in that many, uh o'connell transfer, Darra Transfer burns, transfer MC a little bit longer here. But transfer, uh Taylor, like everybody is a transfer. So it was always, you know, whenever they get that, that chemistry, could it click, could it click even when it was the darkest? We were still saying, like, I guess they could still, you know, figure it out. Um, we got to the point where we didn't really think it was gonna happen. So I'm not sitting here saying we knew this all along, but, but what I'm saying is there was always that chance that all of that talent they've assembled clicked and, and they did it literally in the second half of the, the first win or go home game, right? That Louisville game, they were down 12 in the first half, they had DJ Horn and, and didn't have DJ Horne who was out with the hip flexor and something clicked. And from that point forward they've been, I don't know if you want to call them one of the top four teams in the country, which is what the, the final four says they've been one of the top 10 or 15 teams in the country starting at halftime of the Louisville game. And, and that might have just been when it clicked, the talent was always there, but it, it was inconsistent and their roles were changing and nobody really knew how to play. I find it so interesting and honestly beau beautiful in a, in a way that they stuck it out, they came together and a part of the season where they could have easily divided off as a team and just thrown in the towel going into that Louisville game. It might have made them stronger, losing those four straight at the end. In retrospect, you changed nothing, right. It's like, uh, because knowing where it ended up, like you don't go 2020 hindsight. Geez, I really wish they would have finished that game against UN C where they were up at half. It's like, no, what, how, you know, it's truly like, um, you know, when, uh, uh somebody that played the field, a bunch is in their twenties, found the love of their life in, in their thirties. And they're like, you know what, I wouldn't change anything because it led me here to you. It, it wouldn't, if you're state you're not changing the darn thing. Right. Was, would Kevin Keats maybe have a little bit more hair. Right. Would he be a little bit less stressed if, if they went into the NCAA tournament and didn't play till Thursday? Yeah, maybe. But he's not changing anything right now. He wouldn't give up this run from how far down they were for anything and, and rightfully so you shouldn't and what's even more great about all this. And I'm glad you brought up Kevin Keats every postgame press conference you listen to from guys like Casey M after they won the AC C championship DJ, Burns DJ Horn last night. They all give so much credit and so much praise to their head coach Kevin Keats for saying when everybody else turned their backs on us and maybe gave up. He's the only one that still kept us together behind closed doors and rallied us together. And I think back to it, I don't know why this just sticks in my head. Maybe it's because they played Duke last night to beat them. But after that Duke game at PNC arena, I just remember when John Sha was doing his press conference and I was coming from the inst state locker room. I had to wait out in the hallway with Kevin Keats and you could tell that maybe he had just got emotional in the locker room now for whatever reason. Maybe it was just because he had a moment with his seniors. I don't want to say this, but maybe he might have been seeing the writing on the wall. It's just so crazy to think about where he was at that point as far as in a mental state to where he's at right now. Just being on top of the world with this program and, and well earned right that you can't, you can't take banners away, final fours get banners. Uh II, I have a list here in front of me. 123456789. And I, I actually what you did, you did come prepared. I did and I'm running all 2.5 hours of sleep, so I appreciate you. Hey, pre prepared is in different fashions. Uh You can do it in different ways. Uh But we're gonna take a break when we come back. I have 10 stories. Uh some player related, some program related, some broadcaster related, some coach related, uh 10 stories that I think are uh part of uh of, of the story of this NC state team because like, like I, I, I'll push back on one thing real quick before we take a break. Um Right. All of that like, oh, no one believed in us. Do you remember the, the, the um anytime Graham and I get together. We're gonna have some movie references. Remember the Titans? Where, where uh Julius Campbell stands up and he, and he says like, hey, I'm not perfect. Nobody is right. Nobody's perfect. But as a team, we've been perfect because they, they were undefeated. I look at it and I say there's not a lot of individual underdogs on NC state as a team, they were an underdog. Uh, you know, it's important to remember DJ Burns was a, you know, top 70 recruit in the country went to Tennessee out of high school, top three in the state behind Zion Zion Williamson and John Morant. Um, like, uh DJ Horne had options, right? He played really well at Arizona State last year. He could have gone, he came home, um like Michael o'connell's transferring from Stanford. That's not exactly like, you know, hey, I was at, I was at AD two school last year. It's the future AC C program. The, uh, there, there's a lot of talent on that roster. Uh There's a lot of individuals that have the ability to match up with anybody as a team where they were 20 days ago to where they are. Now, they're an underdog story as individuals, write all that I saw Zach and so many coaches didn't, didn't appreciate you're 7 ft four, a lot of coaches would have wanted to join your team. But as a team NC State, the story is as good as any and I have 10 ways to prove that coming up next right here on Pack therapy. Welcome back into Pack Therapy. I have my 10 stories and by the way, this is uh we, we talked about this before the break. I have 10 stories that I think kind of tell why NC state is such a uh uh on an incredible run. Um These are 10, I could have probably written a list of 200 maybe 300 who knows? Um And also they're not in any order. I want that to be clear. It's not like the best or the worst. It's just the 10 stories. 1st, 1983. The first story is everything this NC State team has done particularly since they won the AC C tournament. But even on the AC C tournament has been compared to one of the greatest runs in NCAA basketball history. Uh Right. It was, it was Jim Valvano, it was running around, it was a buzzer beater to win the NCAA championship as a six seed. It is becoming moralized in, in the, the everything that went on with Jimmy V and the Cancer and the speech and the, and the V fund and ESPN it is how unbelievably difficult is it? If every time you win a game, everybody goes, oh, let's compare this to the coolest story ever, right? It, it would be the equivalent of if you wrote a song or something and every single time they're like, well, let's compare it to let it be. It's like, let's compare it to The Beatles. And you're just going like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, how about, we just see if this is a good song right now, but then to live up to it, right. To have everybody go. All right, let's compare it to let it be. And then you write a song that's as good as let it be. That is absurd. So, you know, they win the AC C championship. Everyone's like, uh, oh, it's starting to feel like 83. I'm going relax. Let's see if it feels like 2015 1st. Right? Let's see if it feels like sweet 16 before it feels like final four. But now everybody went. No, no, feels like, feels like Jimmy V feel feels like, you know, Thurl Bailey feels like 83 and it's just like, ok, and then somehow they lived up to it. That is absurd. Story number one. Story number two, Gary Hahs staying unretired this, this might be more impressive than, than, than the run itself. Gary Hahn, play by play. Voice of, of NC State is retiring. Excuse me, retiring, getting choked up for Gary, uh, retiring at the end of the year. And, uh, that's known, right. So, starting nine games ago, if NC State were to lose any game, that would be the last game broadcasted and Gary Hunt has been around for decades. He has seen the the highs, the lows he has ridden with, with NC State. Uh, and, and I have to imagine like, you know, you don't plan a, like a goodbye speech, but I guarantee you there are some people he wants to thank like the last time on air there's something he wants to say, probably wants to, uh, you know, thank the, the, the programming and certain players and coaches and other media members and he just keeps like, you know, taking out that piece of paper unfolding it and then about five minutes left in the game, folding it back up, putting it back in his pocket and going, maybe I'll use it in, in the postgame next time, but not today. It's an unbelievable story as someone who has a little bit of background in play by play commentary just at the D three level and high school level, nothing at the, at the D one status. I used to always think about, you know, doing your prep, you know, getting your spreadsheets, writing your stats. I wonder if there was ever a point where Gary's sitting there thinking like, wow, this is the last time I really could be doing this. Maybe it's, maybe it's before that Louisville game and yeah, maybe now it's just muscle memory of every time or maybe it's just at a point where he doesn't even think about that anymore. Like he's just truly enjoying the ride and enjoying the stats that he gets to fill in more and more every time, every single time he fills it out, he has to think this might be the last time. Even if he's confident in the team, it's no different than what I'm sure is going through the heads of DJ Burns and the seniors on the team, which is like, this might be the last time I play college basketball. Right. This might be the last time if we lose. It's the last time I play college basketball. You think about it, whether, you know, you hope you win, you hope you're playing again. But, you know, you're aware this might DJ Burns. DJ. Burns wore the, the, uh, green shoes, right? Those might have been the last shoes he ever worn an NC State Wolfpack uniform. He had to think about that. So it's, uh, it's pretty, you know, the, the Gary Hahn run, hopefully, you know, the only time he'll know for shirts, his last game is if they make the championship, which would give him a little bit of like, uh, preparation closure where, you know, you can let the tears highlight one last time, the tears in your eyes as you're, you're, you're lacing up your shoes. Um, next story, the women's team matching them. The women's team is also in the final four that and, and, uh, Isaiah James and Sana Rivers and like that team is full of monsters and it's, it's probably, you know, obviously it's cool. I'm not saying you'd, you'd want it any other way. But if the men's team wasn't on this run as an 11 seed, the run the women's team is on and a, as a three seed would almost be, uh, you know, more celebrated. It is, it is absurd that they have both with, with their histories both in the final four at the same, same time and almost had an i, an identical score for both of their games. Of course, NC State defeats Duke yesterday, 76 to 64 where you have a career high night from DJ Burns who scored, what was it? Uh A 28 and then you have Isaiah James who had a career high night of 27 as the, as the women's wolf pack defeat at Texas 76 to 66 like that. It's kind of scary in a sense. It's, it's, I mean, it is absurd. Uh And, and also, I'll, I'll say this, both teams have had very much a like whatever you throw at us, we're gonna win anyway. Attitude. NC State played games with, with different three point lines uh on the women's side one anyway. Uh you know, NC State on the men's side has, has had foul trouble, not foul trouble. It's played blue bloods, upstart Cinderellas. It's like whatever you throw at us, we're just gonna win the, the women's team matching them is absurd and also had a uconn in both of their final four. It could, if, if things break the right way, it could be the, the, uh, championship could be the final. Um Morsel's leadership. Another story, the, the story number four, Casey Morsel uh has not always been the most gaudy stat guy for NC State, but I go back to what we talked about. Him, talked with him about at AC C tip off before the season where he said right, he, he wasn't recruited there, played two years at U VA, but this is his third year at State, started a ton of games. He took it upon himself to make sure everybody was welcome. He took it upon himself to make the transfers feel comfortable with the transfers from last year with the recruited players. And I have to imagine that at times this year, he had to feel like, I guess we're just not gonna come together. I guess we're just not gonna click even if we all like each other, we're just as a basketball team not going to click, but he, he never stopped trying. We, you know, I I said this, we had him on the show before the game. We had him on my afternoon show, the drive. And um I said the thing that was most impressive about him was how unbelievably the same he was at every point in time, we interviewed him, interviewed him before the season, high expectations. He was one way interviewed him during the, the rough parts of the season where things weren't looking good. He was the exact same person, interviewed him in the middle of one of the, the greatest AC C tournament runs of all time. Exact same person, that type of leadership, that type of calming presence while everyone is gonna pay attention to DJ Burns and everybody's gonna be wildly impressed with the double doubles from Darra or the shot by o'connell or all. Uh you know, DJ Horne obviously being a, a gold blood horn wag afic guy. Uh Morsel was just always there, there were points against Duke where he got switched on to Kyle Philip Posy and he was bullying Kyle Phillips in the post and, and I'm, and I'm going like that's morsel like what? Yeah, you need me to do this, I'll do my darnedest and I'm gonna set the tone for everybody else. I think his leadership is an underrated story of what NC state has going on. You could ask Casey Morsel to join the trainers out in the court, mopping up the, you know, with the towels on their knees like wapping up. Uh I just sweat and he'd do it just because that's the kind of guy he is, he is a team first, me, second kind of guy. I just read this story about John Candy. Uh Do you know who John Candy is? Uncle Buck Cool Runnings, legendary comedic actor. Uh I believe it was Planes Trains and all. No, no, no, no, sorry. It was SCT VA TV show. He was on, uh, in Canada. Um, and a, a crew member didn't know like, was it like a day hire? Right. Somebody that shows up to move like manual labor didn't know who John Candy was and uh didn't know he was a star of the show and he, the, the crew member was moving heavy boxes and candy was a, a large guy and he couldn't move a couple of the boxes. So he said like, hey, sir, excuse me, do you mind if you help me move this box? And candy was like, sure came over was, was moving boxes and then somebody on a headset came over and I was like, uh Mr Candy, we need you in uh makeup in time for, for shooting. And candy said, yeah, yeah, one second, I'm helping the crew move these boxes and it was a cool thing. And that to me is very Casey morsel, right? Like, um, if, if, if I have to set up the chairs, if I had like, you know, the big, the big uh dust room, if I gotta do that so we can practice. Yeah. Yeah, one second, let me get this done and then I'll go back to being a starting guard on a final four team. Then I'll go back to being one of the leaders of one of the best teams in the country. It's, it's his leadership, I think is one of the stories that that's going to be overlooked, but I'm gonna do my best not to let it next story. Ben Middlebrooks, Mr Hustle. Ben Middlebrooks. There's two ways, every play ends up and it, it's every single play for Ben Middlebrooks. Either he gets a crucial rebound or a crucial putback or he's on the floor. That's it. Either he is on his back having gotten tangled with somebody, either he's on his back, having drawn a foul, either he, he's, he's on his side, skidding at like into the front row because he was diving for a loose ball or he gets a rebound or he has a crucial defensive play. The, the guy is, is, you know, 10% heart, 90% hustle. He's, he's coming off the bench knowing his role. Um You know, when, when DJ burns gets into foul trouble trouble or when Modi R gets a little uh winded with, with playing, you know, obviously he was playing during Ramadan, so he wasn't able to eat and drink and all these things. Um Middlebrooks is right there going like, I'll, I'll do my best. I may not be the most finesse soft touch guy, but I could be a bull in a china shop for 25 minutes a night if you need me. And it all started with his performance at the beginning of this NCAA tournament against Texas Tech. I mean, again, 21 point night, not, not to discredit him by any means, but it was one of those days where it's like, who would have thought that NC State's best player on the court in the first round of the NCAA tournament was going to be Ben Middlebrook when he pump fakes went baseline and up and under I went like did, did, did you know he could do that? Why, why, why doesn't he do that more? And then the next game he played like 11 minutes and had two points and it's just like, again, it's kind of more so like, but, but with maybe without the leadership and more of like the energy guy, it's, it's whatever you need at whatever time you need it to be. But I think that's also a credit to NC state in this tournament run as far as let's not rely on just one guy to do it every single night. It's nice when DJ Burns has almost 30 points. It's nice when DJ Horne does DJ Horn things. But in contrary to what we saw a lot in the regular season where it was just one guy filling up the stat sheet. It's been different guys in different games during this tournament run. Ben Middlebrooks included, leads me to my next story. Modra both the glow up from at the beginning of the year. He was very much like rebound and outlet, rebound, outlet, rim defense, rebound, outlet, rim defense. He was kind of in the mix with Middlebrooks as a guy off the bench to now he's a legitimate scorer. He's 15 plus seemingly every game. He's 18 and 12. He's 14 and 13. The, the, the, his glow up offensively mixed in with the fact that he is, it's during Ramadan for him so he can't eat until sunset. Uh, and some of these games are actually earlier than, than the later games they were playing earlier in the tournament. His impact on the game is, is unbelievable. And, and then you mix in the fact that uh a few different times they've had, the opposing team has had a big guy that needs to be defended and you recognize Diarra has to defend them, which allows DJ burns to be hidden a bit on defense. So you get the benefit of his unstoppable on offense without being a liability on defense. Mo Diarra has to cover for so much of him. He has to be the rebounder. He has to be the defender. He has to be that, that for them. And then on top of that, he's pouring in like 16 points a game. It's, it's unreal his, his glow up, his transformation, his improvement, whatever you wanna call it from the first two months of the season, he's shooting threes now the first two months of the season to, to where he is now, that's just what I was gonna say. He's a big guy at times. It feels like he can be a guard and he does it really well. It was funny, I was watching the game out in downtown at a watch party at the Avenue and it was funny when you would see Mo Diora backing a guy down low and then he would just start to step out to a three point line. Everybody would just be like, PAAD, he's wide open, like he's at a point now where you could put the ball in his hand outside the perimeter and take a three point shot and the fans are gonna be confident that's gonna go in which again is a reason why like DJ burns is gonna get all the lights. DJ. Burns only works down low. If you have a big that can space the floor, you need somebody that can shoot because that way Dr doesn't have to also be in the paint clogging things up for DJ Burns with the spin moves and all the setups like you need players spaced out so they can't double DJ without knowing he's gonna find the shooter. It, it was, it's, it's a big, big part of their success is Modra, whether everybody's noticing it or not. Uh Next is Michael o'connell hitting the shot, Michael o'connell hit the single most important shot for NC State this year. He is at best, their fourth best scorer on the team, uh at worst, probably somewhere in the, the seven range and he hit the shot against, I wanna make sure I have this right because II I saw it towards the end of the game. So let me bring up the stats against Duke. He totaled ready for this six points on 39 minutes. He shot two of seven but he did have 11 rebounds. Wait, am I getting this right? Yeah, this is the elite eight. He did have seven rebounds, uh, uh, sorry, 11 rebounds. I'm looking, I'm getting confused here. He had six points, 11 rebounds, six assists, two steals. That's him understanding his role, right? Which is until you need me as a shooter, I'm gonna be the guy that does a little bit of everything. And then when you need me a bank rattle in, uh, the shot of, of the year and he's a transfer from Stanford, uh probably in the, I mean, even in the triangle in the shadow of his former teammate Harrison Ingram a little bit at, at UN C throughout the year and, and o'connell simply, you know, waited his moment and seized it. And it's also interesting with his lacrosse background playing, uh, a U basketball growing up. And I remember when Kevin Keats was on Adam Gold Show. If you missed that conversation, check it out the best on the Adam Gold share podcast and on the Fans youtube channel, which I hope you're watching this episode right now on, he talked about how when he came to visit NC State, what really sold him was how confident Kevin Keats told him that they could win a national championship and I know points in time this year he was like, coach was blowing and I know, I know so many times like that gets ted over and over again as like a recruiting tactic but shouts to o'connell, I mean, yeah, there might have been some points where behind closed doors, he's looking at the mirror and he's like, what am I doing? As he sees Harrison Ingram putting up the numbers he was doing at UN C. But now they're two wins away from that might, that, that could be a real accomplishment for Michael o'connell on his career at NC State and he's, and he's probably coming back next year, which brings me to my next story, Kevin Keat's job. We could have a whole separate podcasts on this topic when I tell you at the AC C tournament, even after they beat Louisville, even maybe after they beat Syracuse. Like other media members come up and go, like, so what do you think they're gonna do with Kevin Keats? So, you think he's on his way out? So, what, what do you think? Right. And, and it's just, you know, oh, I didn't, I haven't heard anything but here's what, you know, my gut reaction is, there was not a lot saying massive raise, huge amounts of money coming Kevin Keats way. Uh, there were some saying, I think they might give him one more year. I don't know if they can afford the buy out of his contract. But if they can raise the money, the guy has made a boatload of money to over a quarter million dollars in incentives this year already. And I haven't even added what, whatever the incentive was for the final 42 year job extension. Uh, he'll never have to pay for a drink in, in Raleigh ever again. If he, if he walks into a bar, there's gonna be somebody there wearing red going like coach drinks on my tap or Wilmington too at Jimmy's Beach. Uh It is, it is unbelievable. You know, people say winning solves everything, winning solves everything suddenly. And I've said this on, on air, I probably said this on the podcast because they've won nine straight because at the time they won eight straight. Last time I said it, uh, the things that used to bother me about Kevin Keats this year don't bother me as much. How many times this year did I say these players can't, uh, get into a rhythm when their roles aren't defined when you don't know if you're gonna play 10 minutes or 35 minutes going into the game. How do you get into a rhythm? Now? I'm saying it's, it's awesome. The other team has no idea what's coming at them. They don't know if they're gonna get 10 minutes or 35 minutes of anybody on the team, it's unpredictable. You can't game plan for them. The only difference is they, they won nine consecutive games and I'll say, like, is that me being a flip flop or maybe, is that me being reactionary 100%? But it's, it's Kevin Keats by way of winning nine games in a row has completely changed a ton of opinions about him and that is included in his contract. Like the money is different. He got a $400,000 raise for next year automatically. That's not, you know, that's talking with the scoreboard, that's not going into your boss and saying, hey, you know, I, I feel like I've been doing a pretty good job, I've been putting in the work or, or, you know, morale and numbers are up. I think I deserve a raise that is walking in and saying, with your chest out a little, where's my 400 grand for next year? Because it's in the contract that it's mine. And oh, by the way, I'm putting a down payment on a, on a, on a bigger house. Like I'm, I'm growing roots here because you can't get rid of me. Not because you don't choose to because I've put in the work to make sure you can't. I'm glad you brought the Xs and Os X's and Os side of things because I just want to bring up a little bit of a fan's perspective as you guys know if you're not following 999, the fan on Instagram, you're missing out a lot of content that I'm doing boots on the ground. Two of my, some of my favorite moments from being out at the Bell Tower Friday night when I was in the middle of everything. I was sort of in the middle towards the win. That's the sweet 16 win. That was the sweet 16 win. All of a sudden to the left of me. You heard students saying clear the way, clear away, let him through. And I'm like, who are we letting through? And I see like these three guys carrying this cutout poster or this cutout board that you see beside a Coca Cola display at a food line of Kevin Keats. And when they get to the very top of the steps, they hold up the cut out and everybody just loses their mind and they're just like, Kev, they're like chanting his name as if he's there. Idol. I saw, I saw other posters that said Kevin, I'm sorry, Kevin. I didn't, I was, I was unfamiliar with your game. We apologize. We've been speaking, we had to speak into existence. Kevin Keats is a winner. I had somebody last night. Tell me not only do we need a Peyton Watson statue in Raleigh, it's now time that we start building the Kevin Keats statue. They haven't even won the national championship if they win a national championship. I'm fine with a, a AAA statue for whoever you want. You want a DJ Burns statue, you want a Kevin Keat statue, whoever whatever statue you want an ice cane for, put the uh the team picture in statue form, do what you gotta do. Uh Next story, we have two more. We've been through eight stories and they've had side tangents. So we're probably up to like 14 stories. Uh DJ Horn returning home DJ Horn from Cary, right? He is a triangle kid who had to go to two other schools most recently Arizona State and then he ends up back home at NC State. Uh and, and takes his hometown on this ride. Uh He has, I believe a 919 tattoo. He talks about 919 and postgame press conferences like DJ Horn is living the like the best part of the transfer portal. You have one year left, maybe the NBA is calling, maybe they're not. You want to go have the, the, the opportunity to play in front of everybody. You know, you want your mom, your dad, your high school friends, your, your grocery store clerks, you want everybody to come watch, you play, you go play your game at home and then not only that you take your home city on a ride like this, that is stuff that, that athletes don't always get. Right. That is stuff that athletes don't always have the opportunity to do. And DJ Horn is living that dream and, and in, in a lot of ways his city is living that dream right alongside him. They're living it through him. And the most like, sentimental part of all of that is after they won the AC C championship DJ Horn, you know, when the rest of the guys are celebrating, he took a couple of minutes by himself just to kind of sit down and embrace it all and start to get emotional. And I think that's when it really struck me. And I think the rest of WP nation not to say that they didn't love DJ Horn before as a player, but just as a hometown kid, that's when it really touched him. Like we're so glad that he made his way back to Raleigh and he's playing with swagger, like when he gets the ball and there's a must have bucket, he knows he's going to make the shot and, and he's undersized, which always makes it more of like, aesthetically pleasing where, you know, he's fading away with a hand in his face and he, and he looks a little bit smaller but how many times and I feel like this is the stuff where as a fan, you notice it and you know, it's not what he's doing, but you kind of feel like it might be what he's doing. It felt like every big shot he hit, he dribbled right in front of the NC state bench to hit it so he could release it goes in and then he turns and like, gives a head nod to his team on the, on the bench. That might be the best way that NC State, like, I can tell this NC State team a lot of players score. What do they do flex for the crowd? Right. They're, they're, they're very present and looking out towards the stands trying to find a camera. A lot of teams. They, they hit a shot, what are they doing? They're looking for the other team's bench to, to preen and to, to peacock around a little bit and maybe talk some trash state did a lot. That was very obvious for them like it was, I scored. I'm looking at my bench, I'm looking at my guys because 20 days ago, we were the only ones that cared about what we were doing when we celebrated. Jim Boeheim told us that that we shouldn't be celebrating because we hadn't done anything that was 19 days ago. He did it on air in the, in the Louisville game 19 days ago from yesterday. Uh when the, the Elite Eight was played when, when, what state is done is very much for them. It's, it's not for anyone else. And I think that's part of why they're so likable, right? The, the most likable people are not the ones trying to be likable. They're the ones trying to be themselves like, uh when, when you listen to uh um like a great uh writer of, of a comedy show or a creator of a comedy show, they almost all universally say I was just trying to write what my friends would laugh at. I was trying, I was trying to come up with jokes that my buddy would laugh at and then turns out America thought they were funny too. Uh like, like it feels like state is very much doing what they think their teammates are gonna appreciate. And then, oh, by the way, they became America's team in the process, right? DJ Burns is like trying to do what, what, you know, DJ Horne is gonna give him a chest bump about and then, oh, look at that America fell in love with DJ Burns. It's just, it's for them and I really appreciate that. You mentioned the Michael o'connell shot being so significant in this NCAA tournament run. And also, well in the AC C tournament potentially jumpstarting. No pun intended this NCAA tournament run. I'd like to nominate an honorable mention. There's, there's, there's a wide category DJ Horn put back three with the hand in his face against Marquette after Marquette was starting to make that run to come back into that game and then blowing the kiss to the Marquette fans. That's the only time that I've seen him not do a sign towards his bench. But that's another significant moment that I'll remember in this NCAA tournament run don't get me wrong. There are moments that are for other people. DJ Horn if you recall against Wake in the regular season, flip the double bird at the ref uh like, like they, they are aware of the situation they are in, they are aware of the uh the, the eyeballs on them. It just, you know, even that it's probably like that was to make, you know, one of my teammates like everything just seems like it's coming from there the blowing of the kiss. Heck you could say that was to, that was to, you know, let them know what his teammates were doing, uh final story and, and again, I didn't put these in any order, but you knew where I had to end. Uh DJ Burns, the guy is unreal. He's everywhere now. I mean, you look on Twitter like DJ Burns has been trending. I feel like for the past two weeks DJ burns with the ball in his hands. Do you know what is the craziest part about DJ Burns? DJ? Burns is the player of the tournament, right? He's, he's maybe, you know, Ed is more productive but DJ Burns is the storybook player of the tournament, right? Everybody loves watching him. They, they, he, he's building up a fan base, he's getting the nil deals. He's on every single podcast and, and, and everything, uh nationally and, and do you realize how impressive it is? He doesn't dunk and he doesn't shoot threes. How impossible is in modern basketball when I can go on Instagram, Twitter or tiktok and just type in like basketball highlights and I can see people in games, uh you know, doing Steph curry stuff where they're pulling up from the logo or lebron stuff where they're dunking on everybody. And that's happening every single day. And DJ BURNS has captivated the country with spin moves and finger rolls with hook shots and layups off the glass with, with backing down, slowly followed by fadeaway jumpers. He, he has somehow made the part of basketball that is traditionally seen as uncool as very cool. It's crazy when you look up DJ Burns on Twitter. And the first thing you see is a clip from first take about 30 minutes ago that says add Shannon Sharp and Stephen A Smith to the bingo of media members who believe that North Carolina NC State, big man, DJ Burns can play in the NFL. That's just how much of a nationwide story he's become. I get that and by the way, like I get that the size makes you think that I've said it, I believe it, but he's a pretty darn good basketball player too. He's a pretty darn good basketball player too. Uh, I think he's one of those guys. He probably, uh, you know, put a golf club in his hand pretty good. He's got the handey coordinations, put a tennis racket in his hand pretty good. America's big man. If he, if he wants to be uh Pablo Sandoval on the hot corner, uh it might be a little bit difficult being 69, but hey, possibly. And the best part about it is the run isn't over. Those are 10 stories. Could have done 200. There's, there's gonna be more right. They're playing on, on Saturday in, in the final four. So we encourage you to stay tuned right here to uh pack therapy. We encourage you to keep listening. We encourage you to pass this around to your friends. We encourage you to enjoy the run. There's a lot of encouragement going on. Uh Thank you for tuning in. We'll see you next time.