Our Take
NFL Combine with WRAL Triangle and Two
Who will draft North Carolina quarterback Drake Maye? Plus how a few local players boosted their draft stock at the NFL Combine.
Hey, everybody. Welcome on into another episode of WRL Triangle and two. I am Luis Fernandez. He is Mark Bergen. Uh and Mark, we are going to have a bit of a special edition of an episode combine uh first time for you uh for, I've never been there either. Um How, how was it just, what were your overall thoughts and impressions? First off Indianapolis did not disappoint the cuisine which we'll talk about here on the back half of the show. Lewis was absolutely terrific and I've got to thank my guy, Ike Taylor um providing the opportunity to be able to go something I'll remember for the rest of my life, but le let's get into it because there's a lot of ties to the triangle that I want to talk about it when it comes to the combine. 1st, 1st of many trips, hopefully, Mark began to the NFL combine for you're manifesting it. We're, we're manifesting it. OK. So let's go ahead and start with from a triangle perspective, right? The big pictures, the big talking points oftentimes over the combine, the quarterbacks uh and Drake May is the premier guy out of the triangle right now, I know a lot of people talk about Peyton Wilson, Tes Walker folks like that. We'll get into them in a second. But, uh, let's talk about the quarterbacks first. One of the things the whispers you hear during the combine and, and this time between NFL off season beginning and the actual NFL draft, are players going up, are they going down the boards? And right now Mark Bergen, it kind of sounds like Drake May is slipping maybe from like 2 to to 3, but there's some movement there at the top. Yeah, and the big question was ok, Caleb Williams is gonna go number one overall right now. The Bears have that first overall pick. Who's the next quarterback off the board? Is it May or is it Ls U's Jayden Daniels and I was trying to glean this weekend of like, who is it going to be selfishly? I would have loved to see all three throw at the combine and that did not happen. Caleb Williams Drake May and Daniels did not throw and did not participate in any on field drills this weekend. So, ok, the top three picks, you've got the commanders at number two, they have a ton of salary cap space. They have new ownership, they have new GM paint your picture, a blank canvas and oh, they also have Sam Howell Drake May's college teammate on the roster as well. I think it would ease the transition, but then New England, if it's Daniels or May, are, are the Patriots gonna be satisfied and happy with whichever quarterback falls to them at number three? I think that's where this conversation starts, but there's been some chatter that May could fall out of the top three, which I don't think I'm buying quite yet, but we'll talk about it. Lewis. Yeah, I, um, I, it's always here just a lot of like conversations, a lot of, a lot of talk if you will. Um I think earlier when we were talking about the NFL combine, you called it the Underwear Olympics and, and that's true. That's what it is. It's a lot of people running in a straight line doing drills like that. So, um I'm, and there's always a bit of gamesmanship when it comes to NFL draft talk, right? Sometimes people are, um, you know, trying to make a prospect, maybe seem a little bit better than they are. Sometimes, maybe they talk them down a little bit, try and see what's going on there. I, I don't see any way Drake May falls out of the top three as long as there's no kind of like trades or anything like that. But, um, I, I think all three of those quarterbacks are very good. Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jay and Daniels, they all, um, have uh arm talent. I would put Drake May and Caleb Williams kind of in a different category than Jaden Daniels in terms of art, arm talent. Um They all have the ability to create. They're all, none of them are perfect pros by any means. But I think, um, if you're Drake May, right, you want to go to the best situation there. Um And of those top three teams picking which it's wild to say this, but I, I do feel like the commanders might be the best spot just because of the veteran playmakers that are there and ownership essentially starting fresh. Yeah, the salary cap space, I could maybe argue Chicago, but as long as the Bears have the top pick, that's where Williams is going. Uh assuming they don't trade it again. All this is on trades. Definitely, definitely. Um with Daniels, I think maybe your upside is higher than May. What I would say with Daniels is he's got to be more than just a one or two read guy if it's not their take off and run. Because at LSU this past Heisman season, he doesn't really know how to slide Lewis. If you on the tape, he does not know how to slide. Yeah, I'm serious. And no, no, it, it, it, it um I, I think I forget, I think it was a Mina Kim is maybe who I saw Tweet this but essentially called his running style. Very looney tunes. E where it's like he just, he'll like jump and just like throw his body out there and I get absolutely deck sometimes Drake may at least got better, I think of avoiding major contact this year, but he kind of had a little bit of that in him too. His, his first year. Um Yeah, it's, it's I, and also I feel like I said, Drake man, K Williams, I think they're in a league above when it comes to their arm talent, at least when compared to Jaden Daniels, I do think Jane Daniels throws a good deep ball but I don't know if he has necessarily like the, the zip that you need. Um Yeah, so II I think it's gonna kind of be like a what are you looking for? And we'll talk about the receivers here in a second when we get to Tes Walker, but Daniels was also the beneficiary of having two stud receivers this past season at LSU. It's not to say Drake May didn't have that with Tes Walker this past year and then Josh Downs a year ago who's an NFL player, but to have both of those guys in neighbors and Thomas on your team at the same time, they were big, big contributors in what was a Heisman season for him as well. So you have to keep that in mind as well when you're evaluating these players is what's the talent like around them and what are they doing? And you know, the argument for me would be maybe he's doing more with less. I know Marion Hampton is really talented as well from a UN C standpoint. But that's something that you have to keep in mind when you're doing these evaluations and you know how they play in college doesn't always project the same way to the Pros. We'll see what May does at his pro day too because, like, we can get enamored of a player working out in cutoffs and shorts. Right. Like we saw it several years ago. I remember by us pro day with Zach Wilson, he's thrown across his body and everyone fell in love. He hasn't done much with the Jets in the NFL Lewis. So it's not an exact science. And if it were, you'd have a better success rate than like 30 or 40% of quarterbacks hitting, hitting when you draft them in any round of the NFL draft. Go ahead. The, the one thing I'll say too is I think a lot of, a lot of, I like just see people talking and I think some of the more like ignorant folks in terms of Drake may are relating him to like Mitch Truby. I've heard some like Zach Wilson Comps and like, so it's, it's people, it's people who are saying that kind of stuff. I just think they never watched him play. The only commonality is that they both played for North Carolina with Trey. Here's what I mean by that. You have 22 years of starting versus Mitch is one when he was at UN C different coaching schemes. There was a different head coach than to say, ok, Matt Brown, and here's another thing with mate too, which I credit him for. This would be a AAA Pro uh an asset if you will. He had a different offensive coordinator this past season than Luongo was there the year before when he made a name for himself or it was like, whoa, who's this guy that came out of nowhere? We weren't sure what we would have at the quarterback position when Howell left North Carolina early to go to the league. So to say he's Mitch Chy, like you, you're not watching any tape and not understanding what's going on behind the scenes, particularly when it comes to there's different head coaches, totally different schemes. Anyone watching this? I wanna shut that narrative down from the jump. Lewis. Yeah. Yeah, all, all three of these top quarterback prospects have flaws. Um It's just gonna be who you like more really? Um, ok, let's stick with UN C offensive players though and go from Drake May to his wide receiver, uh T Walker. Um So Walker, I'm gonna just read off his main numbers from the combine here. Mark um, a 436 40 pretty fast, uh with a 154, 10 yard split, um, a 40 a half inch Vert and an 11, 2 broad jump. So what does all that mean? He's athletic? That's, that's really the main takeaway. That's what you learn from there. He's fast and athletic. Uh, what were your thoughts on, um, what T Walker was able to do this weekend? Let me go with what he told reporters and then go to what I saw on the field when he was asked, hey, describe your game in three words, very, very fast and what he is saying and how he performed. We're in Saint Louis because you read off the 40 yard dash and you go, wow, you know, that seems pretty fast. But, ok, how is that relative to the other receivers on the board? You're talking about the fourth fastest 40 time of any wide receiver that participated in this year's combine Lewis. And then I look at, ok, the other measures of explosiveness, which is a key component of the receiver position, 40 a half inch vertical. That was fifth best among the wide receivers, an 11 ft two inch broad jump. Second among all wide receivers. So you say Mark, you know, is this guy a football player? Is he a track and field guy? Is he gonna be a future Olympian? What I saw was the fluidity getting in and out of breaks and we saw it when he plays Miami this last year, his coming out party and he has three touchdowns in a game, the fluidity. And when I talk to people in and around the league scouts, that's what they noticed is how he moves and how he's gonna be able to take the top off an opposing defense. That's how he's gonna make his bones. And if he played a full season Lewis, potentially, you'd be talking about a first round pick. I think a lot of people are just gonna look at the stats and say, oh, these aren't that good. Remember, he missed several games because of the ineligibility issues with the NCAA. The, I think, um, age will also play a little bit of a factor that with that. Um, and you know, it's, I think the way people look at the draft more and more is you want to trend younger and younger and younger, um, you want people who break out early, uh because then that kind of trends towards more production as you continue to grow into your body. Um, but no, I mean, I think T Walker is gonna be someone who probably would be a second day guy. Um, if, depending on what the run of receivers is like, maybe tail end of the first round, but he's the, the wide receivers and the offensive linemen is specifically offensive tackle deep this year and the deep that's, you're not lying, you're not lying, Lewis. So it's, it's one, it's one of those things where it's like, ok, what, what is it gonna look like this year versus what would it look like other years? But, um, Des Walker definitely did not hurt himself this weekend, I would put it that way. Um, let's go to another guy, Mark who I think, uh, really had circled, got Circled by a lot of people this weekend based on his performance. That's Peyton Wilson, uh, linebacker from NC State. Now, if you watched NC State at all this year, you know, if you watch AC C football all this year, you know how good Peyton Wilson is. Um, but it's just kind of continuing to see him grow on the national side of things. Um, his numbers, I'll read them off once again, a 443, fastest 40 of all linebackers that 10 yard split by the way, 154, that's the exact same 10 yard split as T walker, which is interesting that tells you there's a lot of explosion in what he does 34.5 inch vert and 911 broad jump. Um, so, I mean, all you need to do with Peyton Wilson, I think is turn on the tape. I mean, that's, that's really all you need to know. Um I saw them comparing him to like statistically Luke Kuechly, um, you know, future Hall of Famer, most likely added Caroline Panthers. You, you don't need to hear me talk about Luke Kuechly. But, um, I, I think Peyton Wilson is just gonna continue to, um, you know, broaden his horizons on a national perspective as we get closer and closer to the draft process and then it just becomes, how do people value linebackers that I think will determine ultimately where he gets picked? Definitely Lewis and the only word of warning I would have with Wilson is the same concern we have about Walker is that Wilson will be 24 by the time the season gets underway in the fall, um, when he ran this time and this was when I was getting into Indie on Thursday. I wasn't surprised because I thought back to September when NC State played Notre Dame and I was at that game at Carter Finley Stadium in Raleigh and Peyton Wilson had a few runs where he's chasing down Notre Dame ball carriers where NC State head coach Dave Dorn was quoted as saying, this is the fastest we've ever tracked a player going 23 plus MPH on a football field. He's not driving a car. So when he ran that 444 40 I thought back to September when Dave Dorn said that following the loss to Notre Dame, that's what I thought of. And Lewis, I talked to a scout this weekend and he told me he goes, Mark, listen, the guys he tracked down from Notre Dame. Those guys are 4344 guys and you have a linebacker running that fast flying Lewis flying Payton. Payton Wilson definitely helped himself this weekend. I excited to save himself some money. Oh, let me, let me say one other thing, a different scout I talked to about Wilson also told me this, it's not just his relentless pursuit of the football but the angles that he takes to chase down opposing ball carriers and he knows how to play and attack gaps with the right speed to have sound gap integrity, but to know how to blow up a play of, ok, I really need to turn on the after burners now or. Ok, I can, he, he knows how to use his speed to as an advantage in the start and stop of what it takes at the linebacker position and controlling the front seven. We love quarterback play. We obsess with it, but it is a line of scrimmage game. Lewis. Yeah, and, and you know, we mentioned the 443 40 right? But once again, that 10 yard split at 154, that's that, that kind of shows you that explosion, um that ability to attack in a gap behind the line of scrimmage things along those lines. Now, bringing up the MPH thing like you did is interesting and I wanna get into that because we're gonna last kind of little on field thing we're gonna talk about here Xavier Worthy breaking the 40 yard dash record. He ran a what was it? 423421421421. Excuse me, Jeez Louise. So he beat the previous record held by John Ross, a Washington wide receiver 422. And so it's one of those things where like, man, just, you, you're constantly shocked how people continue to evolve. Like this is the way they, the way they run how athletic they are and things like that. Uh What was it like being there in person when that broke mark? It was the loudest Lucas Oil Stadium was all weekend, largest applause. And here's what you didn't see on TV. That to me was the most incredible part. There were two aspects of this. Number one, he false started on both of his 40 attempts. So every single player participating in the combine gets two attempts. But before you start your run, you have to come to complete stillness for a full second and the adrenaline and the nerves and you know, you're all keyed up and ready to go. He false started on both runs. So that happens. His first run was a 425 and that drew a huge reaction initially and it was like, wow, he's really close and that's the fastest we've seen all weekend. Uh Clemson's Nate Wiggins the day before was at a 428 and he was flying. So he false starts and he decides he's gonna run it again. And then when his, his unofficial time was 4 to 2, the place just exploded. It was on his second attempt. You know, if you take a sample size of say, 10 players, Lewis eight out of the 10, probably nine out of the 10 run their faster 40 time on their first attempt, not their second attempt. And he broke the record on his second attempt. It was absolutely remarkable to see, uh, we can talk some about, ok, just because you run a fast 40 time. He doesn't guar guarantee success in the NFL again. I'll go back to Scouts. I talked to this weekend though if he goes to a situation like Andy Reid in Kansas City Kyle in San Francisco, if he goes to, uh, uh Sean mcveigh in Los Angeles, uh Mike mcdaniel in Miami, a brilliant offensive mind that knows how to use that speed. That's gonna be the key for him is the fit because if another team that does, that has an inept offensive coordinator drafts, this guy, he's gonna be a luxury and they're not gonna use him in the right ways. But to get to see history is really special. Lewis. I, um wide receivers are so cool because there are so many different ways to play wide receiver and there are so many different body types. You've got the Puka Nacua, the Cooper Cups who kind of serve as almost like glorified tight ends in some ways. You've got the Tyree kills top notch speed. You've got the, you know, Jamar Chases that are like, you know, the, the muscle hamsters that are just like, you know, packed and you just, they are fast athletic and strong, you know, you've got the, the stereotypical deandre Hopkins like those, you know, classic long tall, high pointing wide receivers. So I think that if it's all about the fit, it's all about the system. But yes, do, do wide receivers who run fast forties necessarily translate. No, they don't, historically, honestly, they really don't translate that well, but I think that the NFL is continue to evolve, the game is getting smarter, coaches are getting smarter and so there is a way for someone to use that kind of speed for sure. Let me piggyback off that point too, Lewis in your spot on, uh Kon Coleman out of Florida State. A guy that a lot of AC C fans are familiar with. Go up and get it guy. Basketball player makes all the circus catches. You could want runs a 464 and the 40 you say Mark, well, there are edge rushers and linemen that can run faster than that. But when he underwent the gauntlet drill where he's got to run the wide length of the football field, 53.3 yards all the way across. He's flying at almost 20 MPH, which was, it was close to 20 MPH fast as you've seen. So with the ball in his hands, you see the 40 time you say he wasn't that fast. He looked just fine to me in terms of the fluidity and the movement when you actually track his MPH during the Gauntlet drill. So don't take too much of this. It's the Underwear Olympics for a reason, but it is another step in the process for these players that they're trying to establish themselves as pros. You have 320 plus get invited to the combine, 250 plus slots, get drafted. So it's that opportunity and what might be even more important to Lewis is when the players get to meet with the teams, how they comport themselves. What kind of leadership do they have? What makes them tick, what motivates them? What's their body language like, there's a lot more to it than just what the measurables are at the combine. And it was amazing to be there. But again, it's just one component in the entire evaluation of a player when it comes to the NFL draft. Absolutely. Um And before we wrap up here, Mark, um, one of the kind of, I guess a lot of people when they go to the NFL combine, I, I've never been so I'm, I'm taking your word for it. Uh going to places like Saint Elmo's the steakhouse that's over there. Um Just tell us a little bit about the weekend and what, what it was like for you. It was an absolute delight. So I got in Thursday and I knew Friday and Saturday would be slammed. So I'm like, I'm going to Saint Elmo steakhouse. It's an establishment. It's been there since 1902. So I get in and I had a lot of people say you gotta try the shrimp cocktail there. It is famous, world renowned. Thankfully, I was warned that it is spicy. It is a delight to the senses. I'm not, I'm not. But when in Rome, you've got to do it. If you had any kind of sinus congestion, Lewis, you'd be cured immediately. Now, what I will say is that heat goes away almost immediately. It does not linger but it is intense. The shrimp cocktail there was fantastic, the steak, there was fantastic. It was an incredible experience at Saint Elmo. So a lot of people that I've done work with over the years to get to see them, not on screens, but in person was truly special. Um, again, I wanna think Guy Taylor had the chance to meet Reggie Wayne, had the chance to run into Jerry Rice on Saturday night. And, uh, you know, you see people in and around the league coaches, scouts G MS just walking around downtown Indianapolis while you're there throughout the weekend. Uh, a lot of great media members. It is a great, great event because it brings pretty much anyone with an NFL background together in one place. And, uh, like, like you said off the top, I hope this is the first time of many that I get to attend the NFL combine because it was a tremendous event and all of the players, their families, their coaches and the level of sacrifice that it took all of them even just to get an invite, Lewis to get to see that firsthand. I mean, I was sitting in the stands with a mom of one of the running backs that was exercising. And when her s her son ran a 446 in the 40 you know, tears were streaming down her face of happiness and joy because he's getting his opportunity to showcase his ability in this league where 92 of the top 100 watch broadcast last year in 2023 were the NFL. So it is an amazing event. I hope I get the opportunity to go back. And uh it's been so much fun talking with you about the combine. I could probably talk about it till sundown. I, I was just thinking that we could, we talked so much more about it too. How do you order your steak? Mark Bergen? You know what? In the midwestern medium? No. Yeah. Yeah, I could do medium rare but listen, the uh I like the taste of medium rare but there's a, there's a price to pay the next day with my stomach. So I got my steak medium. But listen, you got to peel back the curt for the listeners and the viewers of Wrl Triangle and Two Lewis just like just like the prospects. Mark. Nobody is perfect. Um That's OK. Uh that's gonna do it for us uh for this special edition of WRL Triangle do do in the NFL Combine. I'm Le Fernandez. He is Mark Bergen. Uh Please feel free to uh give us a listen anywhere you listen to your podcast. Five stars like and subscribe all of that stuff. You can watch us on 99 9, the Fans youtube page, make sure you give them a like as well as uh subscribe to their channel. You can also watch us on WRL Sports fan. Thank you so much. Uh We will see you all coming up later this week when we will talk Duke and UN C Battle of the Blues part two.