So I watched your, your interview with Pack Pride and I talked to Jada Boyd and um Amanda Bucyk yesterday. So I'm trying to, trying to get my head wrapped around all this stuff. Um, yeah, I feel like I'm pretty well versed in it, but there's just so much that it's, it's really hard to tell and it's gonna change every week. So that's where we kind of, I wanted to start is sort of, you know, um, what is the collective, like, sort of, how does it function? Are you guys, you're bringing in not only support from fans, but support from business and then you're, are you matching those businesses up with athletes that also signed up with the collective or is that sort of how, how it actually functions? Yeah, So that's a, that's a good question. So, the, it's kind of a loaded question. So the first thing in the collective is for everybody, You know, it's Anybody can kind of be a part of it, you know, from the monthly subscription plan to what we have, what we call an 1887 club to a business, uh, you know, business sponsorship with particular athletes very similar to what you said. So, you, we can actually pair them, you know, with like minded businessmen and women. They have, you know, graduated at NC State or are a supporter of NC State and start to pair them together to create, you know, a connection for the future. So it's a little bit of everything. Um, and I think that's one of the unique things about this is, you know, everybody now has an opportunity to be involved. You know, I told somebody the other day and it's it's a little bit exaggeration but not everybody almost has a chance to be almost like a general manager or feel like they have control over a team. But it also gives you that opportunity that, you know, fans necessarily haven't had because it's always been frowned upon to kind of have a connection with these athletes now. So through the collective, you know, we can have some events. We can have some cool, unique things that we necessarily haven't had in the past to really create the connection with the fans, the businesses and the and the student athletes. I know, you know, certainly reading up on some of the stuff that's happening or sounds like it's happening at Tennessee and texas A and M. Um, the boosters are getting involved in in the recruiting business. I know that's sort of against the rules now that the N. C. Double A has put in also against the rules in north Carolina according to the governor's executive order. Um, so you're concentrating, I would assume that on athletes who are already on campus. Exactly. Um, and that's how we basically from the start. You know, we've had a lot of pressure from a lot of different people to kind of get this thing up and running. But from the start the, you know, the group of individuals that have been highly involved from the start, do it the right way. Let's do it the right way to make sure because we all know in the back of our minds, something's gonna change with this thing, whether it's a week, two weeks, it's gonna be ever changing. So we want to make sure that, you know, the pack of wolves positioned in the right situation that regardless of what rules may change, we've still been doing it the right way. I think you're gonna obviously get a lot of these teams, maybe get a smack on the wrist by the N. C double A. Coming up with with, you know, if they continue to tamper with a lot of athletes, which, you know, it's, it's gonna happen, people are going to do that. But through the pack of wolves, we want to make sure, you know, we're talking with compliance at the university, we're talking with a lot of people that when something comes out from the N C double A that we are doing it the right way and we won't get any student athletes in trouble as well as ourselves in an ideal world, how does it work for you? Lots of fans by these monthly subscriptions, They get access to autograph sessions or events with players and, and then on top of that, you have the businesses get involved and then on top of that talking to Amanda, you have sort of training, financial literacy training or media training is sort of all works together. Yeah, it's, I mean, it is, it's uh, I gotta get the term right because hes made fun of me the other day said drinking from a water hose, but it's drinking from the firehose, so I'm gonna get it right this time. So page has been saying that the whole time, we, it has been crazy, there, there's a lot of things that we can really do with this and we can really help the student athletes. Uh there's curriculums that we've looked at to give to the students and we compare them up with student athletes to help them create a brand, create a website, create a logo. Uh you know, financial literacy is one of them, you know, Ralston Turner uh came came one year after me and played basketball in the state is now a financial advisor signing a deal. And the first person they should talk to someone like a Ralston Turner, how do you know, spend that money the right way mutual funds Roth iras all these little things that, you know, when I was 17, 18, 19 years old, I had no idea what they were, you know, they're gonna be, they're gonna be 10 99 so understanding that, you know, we gotta hold back taxes and they, they have that understanding so they can start to learn a little bit early uh and do the things the right way to set them up to be, you know, financial savvy in the future and have the right tools for the future. I listen to some interviews with you and Hayes as well. I've heard I've heard the number 2-3 million thrown around is that sort of an initial first year thing does this fund have to be kind of replenished every year? How does that part work? So that's again one of the big pieces that we're really trying to figure out. I think we've. we found some unique ways to generate some some revenue streams that doesn't necessarily take away from the athletic department or the Wolfpack club. Which is another question that that we could get quite often. Um you know we we we have a really good entrepreneurial entrepreneurial school at N. C. State the best in the south. So we've had conversations with many people within that so we we are, the main thing for us is you know Doing it the right way and then the next step is the sustainability of it. And we got you can't keep going back to the same people asking for big chunks of money, it's just not gonna work and we don't have, you know like I'm seeing the gator collective and they got guys throwing in just $1 million dollars like it's nothing you know that's just not us but at the same time we've got a lot of other things that can make this thing you know really appeal to the students. you know, maybe it's the financial literacy, maybe it's, you know, the mentorship pairing them up with businessman, so we have a lot of unique things that we can do with it, so again, we just gotta make sure we do it the right way and it's, it's gonna be a lot, but we're comfortable where we're at, and hopefully we can find these revenue streams and work with some other people to, to make this thing sustainable for the future. I imagine the collective itself has some costs. How do you do you take, how do you balance that? Because obviously you're trying to get as much back to the students as possible. Yeah, and and and we're trying to figure that out as well, a lot of people have dedicated a lot of time to this, you know, hes Jared tom level c, you know, molly Thompson has done a lot of our media and our stuff have dedicated a lot of time, and that's that's that's that's one of the things that we're, we're in the process with our executive board of, you know, figuring out what we can and cannot do. Obviously we want as much money as we can go back to the students, but at the same time, we do have to cover a little bit of our costs and and some things like that too, so, you know, we're we're trying to figure it out, I think a lot of us, we'll be well below minimum wage, which is fine because again, most of us joined this thing for the student athletes. You know, we wanted to put something together and do it the right way. And then when we look back on this, when we're a little bit older and and the pack of wolves is still running and we've handed it off to some other people that were like, you know what? We did something the right way and we're proud of what we did. Can you walk me through? So I talked to Jada Boyd, can you walk me through how, how it might work? Or in your mind how you kind of envision it. Jada signed up with you guys. It sounds like she had to sign a contract with a pack of wolves. Um in from some of the other interviews, I've heard it doesn't mean she's a business, can't approach her outside of the collective, but but walk me through, a student athlete signs up with the collective. What are they getting? What are they, what are the opportunities that that you guys can can present to them? Yeah, So Jada Jada and a few others were part of what we call our ambassador program. So, you know, that's just a contract for, you know, I don't know the exact amount of months, let's just say, you know, 4-6 months, you know, uh and essentially all they're doing is helping raise awareness about the pack of wolves. Uh, so, you know, they're doing a social media post the other day, we had them on, on some podcast. You know, tim McKay has been running around doing some stuff as well as the thomas brothers. You know, Isaiah, more important, Payton Wilson over at uh, at the media the other day for podcasts. They're essentially raising awareness for the pack of wolves. Uh, the unique thing about this is, you know, a lot of, a lot of these collectives are just throwing out really bad deals and, and, and I'm basically stealing the names and everything else. We, we want people to be able to do other deals and there's gonna be other deals out there. Um, we'd like to think that after a while we'll gain the trust of these players so we can take a look at their contracts, help them out, make sure everything's good and that's all it's about. We just want to make sure, you know, we're never going to tie someone. And if someone, he says, oh, I'm not, I don't want to do any more social media posts, we're not gonna like, oh, you have to, you know, we're here for the student athletes, we just want to help any way we can. Um, and, and these initial signs or some, you know, some of the ambassador ambassador program that we're doing, that just simply raises awareness about, you know, the pack of wolves and what we're trying to do and how we're trying to help the student athlete ideally. Once you get past that point you know someone comes to the collective and says hey I'm huge women's basketball fan. I want to do something with Jada. You guys will help facilitate that then in some way. Exactly exactly. And the next steps to you know even going a little bit further and again a lot of the stuff is down the line just because it's so fresh and new and we're trying to get everything up and running as as crisp as we can. What does Jayda like? You know what does she see herself doing in the future? Uh And then we as you know strengthen numbers N. C. State N. C. State. People love helping N. C. State people finding the businessmen and women that could possibly be in that industry. You know having a lunch with him having to sit down and then they can have that conversation create that connection. And then when Jada you know she she graduates she's you know she has five or six connections within that industry. Can go back to them and you know she needs a job hopefully get a job from one of them. So ultimately that that's that's what it's about. I try to tell everybody listen if if N. I. L. Was just about you know being able to have a lunch with a businessman or woman now or you know put the money all aside and I sat across from, you know, a student athlete and was able to say, you know, here's my three things that really made me successful. You know, here's one of the things I tried to stay away from, that's worth its weight in gold and that's what it's about. You know, we haven't been able to do that in the past and you know, I've seen multiple student athletes that you know, that we have signed have already, you know, handed out business cards there there there there there trying to have these these lunch meetings with these people, you know, so that they can start to learn, start to create those connections because, you know, a lot of them, you know, they may not see it at first, but you know, this sport only lasts for so long and it's going to be gone one day and then we're gonna be in the real world, so now is the time to really create those connections for your future. Crazy to think, you know, two years ago even you couldn't go out to lunch with with NC state booster or the owner of the car dealership and now like, hey, sign a contract with them, you know, get paid appearance fees, it's like changed so quickly. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, and, and we're not naive in the fact we know this is, you know, the N. C double A. Already coming out with with some new stuff about, you know, hey, you can't, you know, you can't talk to the transfers, you can't talk to high school kids until they're signed on campus. So we know there are gonna be things that are going to change. You know, you're gonna have the Isaiah won't come out and say, oh, I went to the sweet 16 and you're paying X amount more than us. Like we're not naive in that. But the one thing at NC State and the conversations that we we're gonna try to have with the players and the coaches, they gotta understand, you know, you gotta have a culture, you know, you gotta you gotta understand that, you know, someone's going to get more than someone else. That doesn't mean that they're necessarily, you know, the greatest and this and that, but at the same time the coach has got to learn, you know, the right people to recruit. It's gonna it's gonna get a little bit more in particular. You know, maybe if the first question that a recruit comes on campuses, how much money can I make, that may not be the best, the best one at NC State. So it is, it's it's a big change for the coaches, it's a big change for the athletic uh athletic staff as well. Um we're here to help anyway, we can and and make sure, you know, these student athletes can learn along the way. You've heard, I certainly you guys have done your research. I mean, you've heard about what's happening at some of these other places, is it? I mean, certainly what's being reported in the media is kind of crazy. Is that the truth on the ground? Or you're hearing a different story when you talk to people at other schools about what's actually happening? You're talking like the contracts and yeah, with Tennessee right, signed a quarterback for up to $7 million over the life of his career. I get a sense some of that may be exaggerated. There's reason to exaggerate it, right? It sounds good if you're trying to recruit Tennessee kids and yeah, and, and that's, you know, obviously until I actually see the contract, I don't have any idea what what they really are. Um, I can't say I've, I've seen some really bad contracts out there. Like we tried to tell everybody, look, you know, you sign up for a year. Do not, if it does not have an end date, do not sign it. Uh, we've seen not a contract, but alone. So paying the amount back at the end plus interest, we've seen some really bad things that are out there. And I'm, I mean, I can't speculate if that's what it is fruits for Tennessee and some things like that. But again, that's one of the things that the collective is we're just trying to, you know, teach these kids that not every deal is a good deal just cause it has money in front of you does not necessarily meet the value of who you are as a person and, and the things that you're trying to do. So that's one of the things that these, you know, student athletes have to learn as well is you gotta position yourself with brands and companies that, you know, have the same values as you, you know, so, so it doesn't, you know, burn you in the long run. So there is that there's a lot of bad stuff out there and all we're trying to do is is be involved and protect these student athletes. Do you get a sense that, um, well, first of all, you played, what would this have been like for you when you were a guy who, you know, obviously had a following, you know, played for a while. So, you know, you could build up some equity with fan base. What would this have been like for you? That's, that's a good question. I mean, it's, it's, it's just so hard to look at. I had this conversation with Mike linen the day they announced it, I had the conversation with Michael and I was like, hey man, what, what, what, what do you think you could do with it? And neither of us really thought like any big numbers and obviously that the numbers that are being thrown are crazy and I don't know if they're true or not, but it is, it just be unique. And and the thing if anything that, that I've been preaching is, you know, it's that connection, you know, it was it was frowned upon the shape, windle, windle Murphy's hand, you know, uh if I'm going on the plane, so there's just there's just so much that I wish I could have done more. You know, obviously, now that I'm older, I'm able to start to create these connections again. But it also, it means a lot more to do it from a early stage and then you can start to learn a little bit early on. But that's that's one of the things, if anything that I missed out on was just creating those catch connections, you know, shaking hands saying thank you for paying for my scholarship because there's a lot of people out there that don't fully get the recognition that they deserve, that, you know, pays for these scholarships. They take care of these athletes in the shadows. Those are the ones that, you know, I have a lot of conversation with them now and and I end up with, you know, thank you because I wouldn't be where I'm at today without without a lot of these people. Um, I wonder if Tommy tanks there with the baseball team's already already got people beaten down the story. It's it's so interesting because you think of football and basketball, but imagine that there's lots of opportunities in the women's basketball team, you know, baseball there seems to be a lot of opportunities for sports that we don't, we haven't thought about as much in the past. Yeah. And and that's one of the things with the pack of wolves. We're trying to, we're trying to reach out to all student athletes. You know, obviously basketball and football get a lot of recognition, but all these student athletes put in the same amount of work. You know, I I use my wife as an example when I was at study hall, she was at study hall when I was at class, she was at class when I was at practice, she was at practice. Obviously I may have got a little bit more recognition from the basketball side, but she did the same amount of work that, you know, I did. It was just different because you know, non red sport, but there's a lot of people out there. And the thing that we're starting to see too is, you know, there's, there's, there's girls and guys on the track and field that have 80,000 followers on, on instagram. That's right. That's marketable to a lot of businesses. Um, you know, and we're learning, you know, the cabinet twins in Miami have a crazy following on Tiktok, not everybody is going to be like that, but they have a following, you know, they can, they can help drive some business for some of you know, these business sponsors that want to come in. So there is value there with, with a lot of them. We just gotta find, you know, the unique ways to do it and make sure that it helps the student athlete the best way possible. I heard Bubba Cunningham at UNC talk about, you know, trying to establish what, what a market rate is for a social media post or an appearance or an autograph session. Um, is that one thing the collective can help with and be like, hey, you're getting paid not enough or that's a suspiciously high amount. You know, let's look at the contract a little closer and see what's actually going on there. Yeah, I mean we're still trying to figure it out as well. I mean it's just one of those things that just kind of crept on us so fast. We're trying to figure out. I mean, you get, I mean what is one social media post worth, you know, to someone at Tennessee, it may be worth, you know, $10,000 you know, to another person that's 100. I just don't, we don't know the exact value. But the longer this thing goes on, I think you're going to start to see these universities start to see a market value start to emerge a little bit better. But in the meantime, I just think you're going to continue to see some crazy numbers out there that again, Are they true or not? I don't know, but over time It's, it's not realistic for these kids to get, you know, $1 million, 800,000. Uh, you could be a billionaire and I don't know if they're comfortable giving $1 million dollars to some of these kids to win a couple games. I mean, that just doesn't make sense. But again, that's not our business model, but I it's, I just don't see it being sustainable long term. One of the chief concerns that I've heard you mention it a couple times is working in connection with the Wolfpack club and, and others schools have been, or at least administrators have been worried that, hey, this money might come come out of the athletic, you know, the same people, you're going to have the same people who give for scholarships or give for facilities or gift for coaching buyouts, whatever the case may be. Is there any concern about, you know, do you have to find a way to grow that base because you can't keep going to the same people? Yeah. I mean, there's obviously, there's gonna be a little concern there. I think again, one of the good things is, you know, we've, we've had a little bit of conversation with within the university, you know, especially compliance on the things we can and cannot do. We understand it, that we're all kind of fishing from the same pond. You know, we've, we've worked hand in hand with with Ben Broussard, we've had conversation with him, but they also understand that with how this is kind of going within, you know, the N. C. Double A. And with without college sports is these collectives and this N. I. L. Is gonna be a big, big part. So they understand that at some point we're gonna have to thrive and then if we can thrive, the Wolfpack cook is gonna is gonna thrive and the athletics are gonna thrive. So, you know, we're also again kind of back to that, you know, figuring out different revenue, you know, areas that we can target, that, you know, the Wolfpack club hasn't necessarily, you know, had a lot of, you know, success or whatever you wanna call it. You know, former student athletes, you know, former student athletes don't give A lot of money back to the university. So now is the time for us to start to create those connections, you know, and start to see if we can't get some of them to come back and be involved. And, you know, I I used the example is what if every softball player gave $25 a month. There, there's a softball, pot, basketball, football, track and field, all of them just gave a little bit back and you can just dedicated and allocated to that program. So now they have a little N. I. L pot in itself and I think that's something that, you know, a lot of these former student athletes would love to be involved with. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but give me a sense of what you think. I know it's changed so quickly, but what does this look like in two years or three years down the road? A great question brian, I don't think it's going to change. I know there's there's a lot of people that that that are going to think it's going to change the bottom line. Is it the N. C. Double A. Just opened up a can of worms? Uh, these these collectives probably should have came out of the N. C. Double A. S. Pockets or the university's pockets, but everybody knows that nobody's touching those pockets. Um, and I think they also came out with it because they just got sick and tired of hiring lawyers and and you know, monitoring all these universities that we're paying under the table. You know, I think they're going to try to crack down on some certain areas like targeting the recruits before their on campus and incentivizing them with money to come to a campus. I think they will probably do some stuff like that. But long term I think this is here to stay multiple conversations with multiple coaches and universities. They don't see anybody stepping in. Uh, maybe it'll be a Congress or Senate or something like that. That starts to put down some laws within their states and some things like that, that could be a possibility. But again I just don't see the N. C double A. Or even the conference is stepping in and making any big changes at this moment. I know the states that don't have any laws seem to be a little bit ahead of the states that do have laws because the N. C double A. Like everyone expected the N. C double A. Put some guardrails on it and they never did. So how does the state, the executive order in north Carolina sort of affect or is that now kind of in line with where the N. C double A. Is? You know, the and honestly the executive order is actually is actually probably a pretty good thing. I mean I think probably most states should probably have it. So basically the executive order and and this is about as generic of the answers I can give you. You know, N. C. State university just cannot be involved in the deals with the student athletes. You know, boo Corrigan can't say, hey, here's X. Amount of dollars to come to the state kevin keith, Dorin Elliot David cannot do that. That that's basically what the executive order states. You know, we can have conversations with the compliance, you know, we can kind of work hand in hand on things. I think obviously the university wants to be a little bit careful and some of the things they can and cannot do, which I I fully understand. But you know, if we needed help with something, they could give us some answers. They can help us that way. You know, a coach can send somebody to us say, hey we do have some NHL opportunities at the university. You need to have a conversation with the pack of wolves. That is something they can do. They just cannot be involved in the actual dealings of the money and contracts and things like that. Which makes sense. That's probably good. It makes perfect sense. I mean honestly everybody should have it. If not nick Saban is gonna say, hey, I've got $2 million coming here. I mean you're never going to stop it. But at least with this in place you kind of eliminate a little bit of that. Obviously, you know, you're gonna get some universities that don't follow the rules but I'd like to think at NC State and what we're trying to do and our values and what we believe in. We'll do it the right way. I'll leave you with this one. You went public sort of this week, but I know you've been working on it for for a couple of months. What's the response been and and you know, if you have any big events coming up that people, you know might be able to attend or might be able to contribute to. Yeah. So um obviously pack of wolves and I L. Dot com has been out. You know, the the monthly subscription packages is on the website and there's a lot of Q and a's get a little bit more information as well. My email's on there, if anybody has any questions for me, you know, it's it's been good, obviously it's continuing to have an interview and kind of educate a lot of people on this because again, we we have a conversation with people and say, oh, this is legal now, so people still don't fully understand what's happening. Even some coaches, we've had some conversations with coaches, oh, we can do that. So now is the, you know, the time to kind of get that thing out there, get this thing moving from an event standpoint. Uh, we wanted to kind of get this, this initial launch up and running and now we're going to slowly work on some events in the future for, you know, our monthly subscription packages and some other people like that to kind of start to create that connection and, you know, have that, you know, unique experience that, you know, NC state fans and supporters haven't been able to have in the past, Coaches for 150 years have been told you can't do this. And then then, you know, the light switch turned on and all of a sudden you can do it. So they're probably a little confused to every, I can tell you, everybody's a little bit confused. I mean, they're just that's just how it is. But again the nice part about it is it's there's a lot of good people that are working on this. A lot of people that you know want to do it the right way and and that's all you can ask for and your role just to be you know clear is executive director of the Pack of Wolves. Yeah. Yeah molly won't want me to say it but I like to think I'm I'm more of a pretty face but you know I'm doing a lot more behind the scenes stuff, you know trying trying to get to get the word out there, you know getting with with a few you know uh N. C. State businessmen and women trying to find some some some businesses out there that can start to pair with some student athletes and things like that. Some car dealerships and things like that. Uh So it's been a fun process. Again it's it's ever changing. It's a little chaotic but we're going to do it the right way. How are you juggling this with your day job? I'm juggling it, that's exactly what uh two crazy kids at home. Um But you know we're we're in the process of getting some really good interns um and getting some people involved and then I see this thing probably within a year or two years uh you know there's there's gonna probably be some really full time positions there that uh we'll be able to really take this thing on, It's just, it's just been so early and it's been happening so fast that we just haven't been able to, you know, just dedicate everybody in a certain spot and and and do some things like that, but it's it's something in the future and maybe a little bit sooner than we think that we're gonna, we're going to figure out for sure. I know that there's some are coming out as non profit, some are coming out as five oh one C threes. How are you guys classified? So, and that's that's one of the things we're trying to figure out as well. So, um, we've had conversations about doing a 50123. We've had conversations about doing a nonprofit, um, it's something we're going to bring to the executive board here in the near future. So in the meantime I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold off on answering that question. I think we're in the process of figuring that out exactly which route we want to go. Maybe it's both. Um, so we've seen a few of these collectives do certain ways and so we're kind of trying to see what works and doesn't work for those collectives. So that's one of the, one of the nice things because we're not first, you know, we can kind of learn and see what all works. So, um we're kind of in the process of figuring that out, uh and we just want to make sure that whatever we choose, we're confident in our decision.