You know, to be honest with you, it probably started, it actually started when I was in high school, early years of high school. Um uh one of the better quarterback receiver camps in the Southeast was at Furman. So obviously, you know, with coach sharing being there and um you know, stamping that program um is interesting going to that camp a couple of years in a row of my early high school years and having some success and learning a lot. But I was, it was actually a, it was interesting because they were the offensive play schemes that they incorporated even for a four day quarterback receiver camp was the NC state terminology, you know, the the play calls, the 74 post, those types of things. Um So it was kind of interesting when I got to state several years later after committing there and coach Sheridan being at state at that time, um I actually understood the terminology that was being used. So it was kind of interesting going to a camp at an early age and then, you know, finally deciding on inter state. Um and, and signing there, it was, I was hearing the same language day one. So it was kind of, it was kind of interesting. I don't know, maybe it's Karma, maybe the Stars Line. But, um, um, to be honest with him, coming to Georgia back then you had to get on an airplane to go recruit somebody. I mean, he couldn't, you know, it wasn't at the, uh, a stroke, the key, you know, to go look at your talent and, uh, try to do that. So those guys had to, they had to burn some calories and uh hit the road and, um I think just him coming to, to the, at that time and to be honest with you, II, I may have been the first person to ever go on a scholarship ever. And the school had been around a long time, not a lot of success, but very fortunate um during that time, but for him to, to, to, to grace uh the school person, his presence on multiple occasions during the creating process for, you know, several years, um just meant a lot and you know what he was, um, um looking back on it now with his passing, you know, I, I didn't realize his age when he was recruiting me because he looked young, healthy, had beautiful hair, you know, always upbeat. Um I had no idea he was at the age he was, he was when he was recruiting me. But, um, you know, just had the charm and the confidence and not overbearing or pressuring. But, you know, it's almost like he was always looking out for the kids best answers, not necessarily the program. Um but he wanted to try to, um I think go get, go get kids that kind of fit the mold of what he was trying to build. And, um you know, and I think the success, um the success, success that he's had where he was speaks volumes for his ability to, to get the, the, the types of people he wanted not, maybe not necessarily the best. Um but the collective group of folks he wanted that he thought he could get to reach, um you know, it's come as close to reaching their optimal potential as possible. And I think that that's why you saw a lot of, you know, some guys that may have been overlooked, come together and, and we accomplished a lot of things, a lot of people love. We, we came as close to, to, to meeting expectations I think is a, a as we could. Absolutely. Now that was definitely reflected on the field, but at the same time while he was, you know, a true southern gentleman, he also uh he commanded respect, didn't he? Well, and that's the thing, you know, a lot of people say, what would you like? Um you know, some people, you know that they banter that they're loud. Um Oyer um He, you know, he never used foul language it was rare that you would ever hear an expert at the practice game. Um, you know, his coaches were a reflection of him and vice versa. And, um, yeah, I mean, he was just a gentleman. He didn't, he didn't ask for respect, he didn't demand it, he just got it by the example that he, that, that he led and, and, and that, that speaks volumes and, but at the same time, you know, most people this day and age, they don't know Ef Hutton. But you know the old saying when Ef Hutton talks, people listen and, uh, whenever he did address you, he had your attention because it wasn't often. And, uh, but when he did, he certainly, um, we, we paid attention and I think I, oh, go ahead. Well, I was just saying he was, he was so good people. So he was great at coaching coaches to coach players. So it was rare that he engaged you directly. I mean, on occasion when need be, but he did such a good job of, of, of getting his coaches prepared to coach the players and he let them do their job. He was a great manager of people and, uh, a great motivator and a great leader. And that's reflected too with how many of his players have gone on to be coaches too. Right. Sure. Sure. They're, they're sprinkled everywhere and, and a lot of them are still coaching. Um, I'm not sure about the, those who were under him when I played, I think most of them have kind of exited the game, um, for various reasons and, and enjoying themselves a little bit. But, but a lot of those that he coached are, are now, you know, my age and, and still doing great things. Yep. Uh, but I think Mark Thomas was telling me that he coach wouldn't really, I think Mark Thomas, uh, the tight end, I think he was telling me that coach wouldn't really give much of a, a pregame speech. He would just kind of say, all right, go guys, let's go rip some butts or something like that and it's just out the door. You all went. Yeah, I mean, um, he was, they were so precise in game planning and everything though. I mean, I mean, come lou latter part of the week. I mean, I think, I think, um, you could coin it as, you know, the, he was in the barn now. It's just time to go play. I mean, there's no more preparation, you know, go play, have confidence in what you've been taught, have confidence in the game plan, the guy beside you and, and, and, you know, let's, let's go see how we've prepared this week and take a final exam on Saturday. Absolutely. Um, how amazing is it in retrospect? We talked about this on the phone earlier. But, uh, that's, he turned down these job offers from Georgia LSU, his alma mater South Carolina to stay at NC State. I mean, it is quite remarkable and, but, but I can certainly understand that and his success he had. And, um, I know, you know, I suppose it's, you know, his time at the helm at these places was so brief, um, that we, we didn't really, you know, I think a lot of people don't really realize how impactful he was to the game and, and, and the, and the coaches and the kids that he touched because it was, it was brief, it was too brief. But, um, obviously, I think, um, you know, coming along during the V era and those guys being close, I think that, that, that, that help was number one, he was having some issues and, and, um, you know, decided to, um, to go that route out and, and I think just being away from the game for a few years, he realized, you know, what, maybe I don't need to get back into that. And, um, because, because as you just mentioned, he certainly could have, he could have at a very high level. Um, but, but he chose, uh, he chose to, to do what he wanted to do and take care of himself and those that were close to him. How shocked were you as a player when that happened? And we, we were, I mean, um, you know, but he, he, I was, I think I was, I think I, I'm trying to think I had signed. I, that's right. I was overseas. I was a team USA when I got, when I learned, um, it was that hush, hush. He kept it, kept it to himself and, and I'm, I'm, I'm not sure, I'm sure a few of the coaches may have been aware that we're closest to him. But, um, I think he kept that guarded. Obviously, he kept that guarded till till into the summer, not necessarily force the hand of NC state, but, but try to protect those guys that had been good to him and good to the kids for a long time too, you know, to really, you know, kind of, kind of kind of hamstring the university that it was really way too late in the game to try to go get an outsider, uh, to put the puzzle together, you know, just in a month or two before the first game. So, um, I think that was by design and, and, and I got worried and I was actually, I think I might have been in Italy playing with team USA. But, uh, because the, the question came to me, am I coming back coaches out and, and, you know, and there's gonna be some changes and, and, and the staff just need to know if I was coming back, but it was, uh, it, it, we, we were all surprised, we, we were not aware. I, I have heard him say that very thing though, he wanted to wait till the end or as late as possible so he can keep his staff in place. And also talking to Tim Peeler yesterday, he talked about how coach Sheridan really did a great job staying in touch with all of his players at all sorts of different levels that he coached, whether it's the high school or, or NC State. I, what does it say about him as just, you know, a loyal person, how he treated his staff and players. Uh, not just when he was coaching, but after he was done coaching, no, that's, that's a good point. I mean, he, he never changed and he never deviated. He was the same and I'm telling you he was, um, he was like a last half fool always. And, um, you know, he didn't, he didn't change, you know, a lot of times you'll see, I'm sure coaches change in some, some players eyes the recruiting process. It's all, it's all bells and whistles. It's beautiful. We love you red carpet, um, to get them on campus and then, you know, when you get there it's going on your job or, you know, next man up, but it was, it was never the case. I mean, he, he really came across as he, he cared about your best interest as a human being, a student, a young man and trying to kind of, you know, help, help shape our trajectory. Not, not just on the field, certainly because the percentage of people who go on to play football, it's m school. So, um, and he didn't change, he didn't change from the time he referred to me his sophomore year or whatever, it was all the way through my stay and, and, and still coming back on occasion and keeping in touch with us over the years, um, either either directly or indirectly through his assistant coaches, the, the Michael Keynes, the Ted Keynes and, you know, the late Snipes and, and Robby Caldwell and Kaiser and all those guys, they were just, um, it was, um, it was a unique time and you don't, I don't, I'm not necessarily sure you buy it anymore because, um, you know, it's, it seems like the, the game has changed the play, the players have changed, certainly. And the coaches have changed to a certain degree that, you know, it's, it's almost like the shiny object. It changes weekly and, and now coach having to rebuild their roster annually. So it's, it's, it's just a very different, we were fortunate to be able to, to, to, to play under him. And in that coaching, uh, pedigree that he had, he had accumulated over the years that were very loyal to him and, um, and what he was trying to get accomplished. So, if you're talking to a young new NC State fan who may not be aware of the history and, you know, we talk about Coach Sheridan's time that it was brief but impactful. How, what, where do you, what would you tell though about what his place in state history was? Maybe how he rejuvenated some of the interest in, in state football in the eighties. What, what would, what would you say about coach Sheridan's legacy at NC State? I mean, I, I think it, that it, when you peel back the, the, the layer, just a touch, you can see it very clearly. But, um, you know, I mean, today's world and today's college football landscape, it's, you know, they're looking for immediate results, immediate pleasure satisfaction, players, coaches fan base. Um, it was in an era where, you know, you know, the internet wasn't great, uh, social media was nonexistent and we had back phones in our car. So, um, you, you may not even know that you may be too dumb. But yeah, the, the big, big phones, uh, that were about 30 $30 a minute type deal. But, um, he, um, yeah, he went about it the right way and, um, and it's, I think when you look at it, you look at the success and, and I think you'd be compelled to find anyone that would, that would kind of have a, not have great things to say and that, hey, how he touched, touched their lives and, you know, at being, you know, 50 something years old now, you know, I look back as a young man coming up through football, you know, outside of mom and dad for football players, it was typically your high school coach or your college coach that, that had the biggest impact on your life. And that, that, that, that, that, that goes without saying that, that coach Sheridan and his staff certainly had a huge impact on, on my trajectory. Well, I appreciate it. Terry, that's my last question. Unless there's anything else you wanted to add about Coach Sheridan that I didn't get around to there. No, no, I just, I, you can't say enough good things that we gone forever. But um I'm just glad that when you said when you were nine years old, you have a chance to be at the Duke game. That was, that was one of those games that, um, you know, a, a quick story about him just before we get out of here. It's kind of funny. Um, it happened to Ray Tanner too and I, you know, I was just AAA country guy from Georgia, but that game, I think we were down maybe 10 or three minutes to go and it didn't look great and it was a very good dude, dude, football team. That was my first start as a true freshman and, and Dave Brown was on the other team and they were good. They had a good, good football team and, uh it looked very doubtful room to pull it out. So, uh, we were able to come back and also side kick touchdown, a couple of drives and, and we were able to, to close the gap and I'll never forget, um, I thought I had done my job, played, played a pretty solid game for, for not knowing a ton of plays. I mean, it was a very condensed game plan and, um, I just remember that we're in that two minute offense with a couple of minutes ago and Michael Caine and coach, they're just yelling at me and, and, and looking at each other like, let's go, let's go. I mean, the clock, let's go. And I just remember Mosie over to the sideline, you know, trailing a play at the 10 15 yard pass play pickup. And I just remember looking at coach Joke and coach Sheridan and they're like, let's go. I looked at him and it's like there was silence, they could hear me, I could hear them and I just, I said, dude, I gotta have time to think out here, right? I only know about 10 plays. It. It's worth it. Everything's moving quickly, dude, give me a minute and I swear to you, they looked at each other at that moment and they, they had forgotten and then they needed to be grounded that we got a kid who just graduated high school a couple of months earlier, right? Let's, let's, you know, take and so it was kind of funny and I think they got a kind of a chuckle out of it. It was almost like a tension breaker for everybody. But I called him, dude and he did bring that up later and he said, dude, and it's um so anyway, we go on tie the game and I'm thinking there was no overtime back then. I was like, you know what? Don't let me lose my first game, first start. So I run off the field with the score tied 30 like 31 or 30 31 30. I'm running, I'm kind of jogging towards, I'm like, dang, you know, not a bad day. And before I get to midfield, Sheridan's holding up two fingers and there's only like, what, four seconds, something like that. I mean, maybe, maybe that and I'm like, you know, let's just get a tie and get out of here. But anyway, he's holding up two and I'm like, oh God, here we go. So, um but that was the competence he had in, in, in the way he played. So we went for two and I remember hitting garner boy tater, uh Hinton in the back of the end zone and we went up, we went 32 31. But the little guy free love maybe. Yep, he literally ran it back to maybe our 10 yard line on the kickoff on a play that took at least 30 seconds in actual time. And I think Mark Fowle, our kicker ran him down. It was, it was, it was crazy. Um And the reason I say the word dude is that it just caught him off guard. So he did bring that up later and I said, sorry, sir. It's just, you know, it's just that no disrespect. It never happened again until a road trip with Ray Tanner and I called him during the rain delay. He's like who can pitch? And I was a freshman and I was like, dude, just give me a rock and that's where it started with coach Standard. He paused and uh he just said, dude, and I went, yeah, just give me a rock and then he just kept on walking. So needless say j I did not see the field that afternoon.