One constant feeling rains over the 130 plus year history of NC State Wolfpack football hope and when there's hope. Well, Pack fans can always relate pack family time for a true look at your team, expert analysis, special guests and a Carter Finley sized bag full of Xs and Os. Let's get hooked up for Pack therapy. Here are your hosts, Tim Donnelly and Wolf Pack. Great, Mike Lennon. Welcome back to another edition of the Pack Therapy podcast. I'm Tim Donnelly as always joined by Pack legend Mike Glennon, former quarterback and uh and we have a very special guest today, Wolf Pack Tom from Savage Wolves, local entrepreneur NC State fan. Uh but we also, uh before we, we bring Tom on and, and, and get his thoughts on some things. Uh Please subscribe, please like, please comment everywhere. Podcast can be found. Please tell your friends about Pack therapy. Uh Well, I guess we'll start here Tom. Thank you very much for, for taking the time, any breaking news, any like four star coming out of the portal that you're that you can, you can share for us because I feel like every time your face pops up on, on my Twitter feed. It means some big uh transfer recruit is, is coming out of the portal to the, to the NC State Wolfpack. Uh Yeah, I mean, I've decided that I'm coming back next year as a State fan. Uh No, we, we still have a few things, you know, some now, now it's really about some of the local guys that are current uh members of the team that um have a decision to make whether they're, you know, going to the draft or coming back. But, um right now I think, uh as far as the new s and new players, I think we're, we're pretty, pretty set man. Uh It's funny, Coach Gibson last year was just joking around said go get me an offense in the portal and now he's like, dude kill. Uh but, uh, no, I think for now, I think we're pretty content. NC State beats UN C big rivalry game. Casey is a big part of it after that game. You hear Dave Doran say we need 5000 people to give $1000 and, and it's, it's that push and then I think it was three or four days later, the announcement that Casey Concepcion was locked up for the next year and I'm like that is efficiency writing for this or that. Like, how do you quote unquote lock up or sign a player for a year in college? Yeah, Casey, uh as, as, as it stands with him. A lot of people don't realize, you know, Casey's, his family wasn't necessarily, um, wanting him here to come to NC State, you know, and, and it was a lot of, uh, relationships and it was a lot of, um, him having to go with his heart. Uh, and, and the same thing, you know, when he started to blow up, uh, you started to notice a lot of which a number one, the most awful part of nil agents, you know, agents started hanging out in the parking lot and, you know, I'm, I'm very protective of him, you know, because he's an amazing young man. Uh I mean, on the field, you see his performance but off the field yesterday as an example, um, he texted me and just said, hey, man, what are you up to, uh, let's go see Grayson tomorrow, you know, Grayson's the Grayson kitchen, you know, he, he's just, he's such a loving guy and, and anyway, he's very special. I'm very protective of him. Uh I see all these agents out in the parking lot and, you know, they're in, in his family's ear and when, um, when we sat down and, and it was killing them, it was tearing them apart, you know, because some schools are not doing things, um, the right way and, and putting things in his ear and his family's ear that really naturally cause struggle and conflict and, uh, you know, I told him the same thing I said, man, you're gonna have to go to your heart. You know, this is your life as long as you're educated on, on all the pitfalls and positives of both sides and you know, you need to make a decision for you and, and he loves it here, man, he absolutely loves it here. So, so, so with, excuse me, with, with you making all that commitment, right? And, and setting up the LLC S and doing this and doing that and helping him with the, the clothing brand, what commitment is coming from the player side? Is it, is it a multiyear? Is it a I'll be here next season. Like how are they pledging back in the other direction? Well, you know, oddly enough, I, I tell our guys don't ever even entertain a multiyear nil deal and I would be very hypocritical if, if I try to present one, right? Because your value might go up and, and again and you got to understand nil means something different to me as a businessman. It does to a coach, right? I mean, and, and uh the idea of having um multiyear nil contracts is really prohibited to the athlete. And at the end of the day, that's why I got into. This is because the athletes have had, they've been viewed as a commodity by the NCAA for a very long time. And, you know, this is, this is their opportunity to, to, to earn, you know, what their fair share. And um, yeah, so, so for me to present a multiyear deal, but what he commits in return is to, you know, we have in our contracts, we have um, different things and because our whole goal is to raise money and how we raise money is through the athletes. Right. So they're, uh, they're held to a couple different levels of commitment every month. Right. We, and again, we're the only collective in the country that doesn't make a dollar. Right. And, and that's because I'm not in here to make money. You know, I'm, I'm in here to, to help NC state win a championship and to, um, help set these guys up for life after football and, uh, what, what they have to do for us, there's large projects which is, you know, with our corporate packages that we're really starting to roll out. Now, um, you know, advertising things like that, they have to do autograph signings or, um, you know, show up at somebody's office and, you know, those, those kind of larger time commitment things, uh, the smaller projects, every one of our new members that signs up, they get a personal phone call from an athlete, the athlete tells their story and, you know, as a fan, when you get a phone call from, you know, Casey saying, thank you for, you know, being a member that, that does something different you know, and again that there's so many different angles as to why we do this. But the main one is the life skills, you know, these, these athletes, every single one of them have their head down focused and every one of them think they're going to the league eventually. And the reality is very few of them are. And when that very humbling moment comes where they realize that their, their tunnel vision thing that they've been working towards isn't gonna happen. They haven't really been set up for success. So what we're trying to do is teaching, you know, these life skills, public speaking communication, we teach them how to tie a tie, we teach them how to do tactic, all these things that might benefit them, set up with a network, you know, all these business leaders and, and uh CEO S that we have come together for our, our networking groups. I give the guys more, you know, I'll tell them when, you know, this person shows up. Uh I want you to, you know, find he or her, introduce yourself to them. Give them your story. Understand why, why is this person the one that I chose for you to be uh looking for? It's just, you know, uh admittedly I was in the same boat, you know, before nil, I thought uh division one athletes had it made, you know, big man on campus. But seeing once I've gotten involved with this and seeing. It's the second you wake up training, it's um, school, it's treatment, it's film, it's nonstop and, and understanding the backgrounds that a lot of these, these kids come from. You know, it's, it's a, it's not, they have not been set up for success after football. Well, I, I know media is a post uh, football aspiration. So if they ever want to be a podcast guest and just get those reps, you know how to reach out to pack therapy. I got it, man. Give it, give it a go. I have you, every one of them have to do a public podcast for you. Your next project. There you go. There you go. And Tom, I know last year there was kind of like a every player trying to get 25,000 for them. I don't know if that model is still in place, but overall, how are you guys coming up with distributing the funds? Like how do you come up with the number that these players get? Well, you know, that's the frustrating part of this stuff, you know, is, is when you hear these, I, I promise you 99.9 99.9 of the, uh the numbers of the numbers that you hear out there are total BS man and it's agents and it's actual coaches that are intentionally leaking these fake numbers out there because all it does is what, when, when, what's his face? He said it's 2 million for a quarterback. That is absolutely ridiculous. But if we're talking about them, right. And, and these, these athletes, they hear that and they're like, oh, wow. I might be able to, if they talk to me, that's something I might be able to expect. And, you know how you actually put a value on someone is, it's impossible. Right. Because every, everyone is worth something different in different ways to me as, again, as a businessman, it's, are you marketable? Can I put you in front of a, a customer that is willing to represent uh and, and risk their products and brands on, on your name to a coach. It's, you know, how fast are they and, and all, all those different metrics, right? So it's, it's really a case by case situation and it really comes down to communication and trust and, and just doing things the right way and being completely transparent. But, you know, there are um like different sports, you know, you look at uh there's, there's people on the softball team or on the, the wrestling team that might have a million social media followers and that's worth quite a bit, you know, to have that kind of impact. Um So, you know how we go about determining what um our, our uh compensation packages look like a case by case basis, but it's really sitting down first and foremost. The first step is usually it's the, it's the athlete saying, well, I think I'm worth this and then it's that humbling conversation that you have to have. Where did you get these numbers? Let's come on, like take what, you know, your hand, you know, your agent told you that all these things are false, right? So it, it really that when, when we do get to the point where we're able to communicate with them, you know, it's my family, my dogs and NC state in that order and I'm never gonna do anything to jeopardize my ability to show my face around there. So, you know, there's certain conversations that we can't have until a certain point. Um, so think of it this way, there's, there's three different and, and to back that up your athletes eligibility is just as important too, right? So, um, having understanding what the rules are, uh, which doesn't seem like a whole lot of, uh, schools care about. But, um, uh, there's, there's three different buttons, right? There's, there's retainage of existing players, there's transfer portal and then there's incoming recruits for retainage. Obviously, I can talk to them anytime, right. And we sit down and we actually, um, sit down quite a bit, you know, we'll sit down throughout the season, uh, uh, probably two or three times a week, you know, just to catch up and talk about life. And, um, when, when the time of the season comes around to where we wanna, you know, see how they are, uh, make sure that they're comfortable. Um, that, that's easy for transfer portal, you know, uh, once, once an athletes in the portal and, and the coaches have, have identified that this is an athlete that we want. Uh, we've talked to them, um, you know, the, the current and it's almost a trickle down thing. That, that really, that's why, you know, Drake, they are all these guys. That's why it was so important for us to, to do right by them. I can't tell you how much of a part they play in this, right? Because uh we have those guys evangelized to everyone down the line about, you know, how we operate. Um because until that period of time where I am allowed to talk to someone, we count on the existing athletes, we count on the families that we've done right by to evangelize for us. And it's almost like a, a backwards approach, but it works because instead of having, you know, my dumb ass, oh, we're the greatest thing, whatever they, they've actually already been in contact with a group of people that have lived through it and, and seen, you know, we do things or the, the way we say we're going to. So again, by the time I'm uh in the conversation, there's already established level of comfort and trust and they know it's not some type of sales pitch. So, yeah, it's so, Mike would have heard from Philip Rivers already prior to you even getting into the, the, the situation. Correct. Correct. And Mike, by that time, Mike would have been just quit wasting my time. You know, you little p I've already talked to Philip Rivers. Do you know who I'm Mike Glennon? Um Hey, hey, Tom, Mike actually has to head out. He's got to go pick up some kids. Is it cool if we hang? I still want to jump a little bit more. All right, before you see you, I'll call you in a little bit. I gotta take my kids to school, man. See you buddy, are you comfortable of, of like from where to where do those conversations start? You mentioned, sometimes athletes start way over the top. Where are you trying to talk them down to? Um, I mean, it, it's really, uh not even trying to talk anybody down. It's, it's just understanding where, what, how did you come to that number? Right? You know what, um, you know, and, and there's example, so, you know, there are other people in my shoes at different schools. That's another thing. These, these, uh, coaches are really good at XS nos, but they're not necessarily the best businessmen. And so, you know, just doing due diligence and, uh, you know, if it was up to the coaches, if, if an athlete and thank God it's not at least here if, if a player came in and said I need $500,000 to stay here. I'm pretty sure the reaction will be $500 is gonna be, you know, because again, there's no negotiation, there's no due diligence. And so again, one of the things that I've done personally to kind of protect ourselves from leverage is uh build a network of people that are in my same position in other schools. And, and it's been, uh uh I'm really glad that we took that approach because, you know, when so and so says, uh, you know, I need XYZ dollars to stay or go, you know, you have some checks and balances that, you know, you still keep in mind you're talking to the other side of the fence too. But um it's, it's really just gathering as much data as you can and, and um and another thing is, it's really not just about money, there's ancillary things that we provide and try to provide and, and number one, it all ties back to family, right? So, uh like myself, you know, I grew up in a Jerry Springer episode and a lot of these athletes unfortunately have come from similar backgrounds and uh having the family uh present, you know, the family that is around, uh having the family present is really important to us. So, you know, we, we provide, not just, hey, this is what you're gonna get paid, right? It's, hey, uh we'd like to provide your, you know, your mom or whoever, uh flights to come see your games for the first time in hotels and, um, all these different, different things, you know, vehicle leases, uh, helping them set up, build their brand. You know, we have a team of, of people behind us that the second that someone signs with savage wolves will do a deep dive. Understand who they are. What's their hobbies? Try to set them up with people that, um, might have businesses in those same fields again, trying to set them up for life after football range. Um, it really depends on so many factors. Right. There's, you know, and, and I'll be honest with you, there's some, some athletes, I think that, um, get paid more or less than some who probably should get compensated more or less. Right. But, you know, it's, it's a very fluid thing, you know, and, and the, the reality is reputation is everything in nil. And, uh, I would rather have a really hard conversation with someone that, uh, you know, brings them maybe back to earth than to, to lie to somebody. And, and I think, you know, that approach is, has also helped get us to where we're at. What's your relationship with the, the coaching staff? Right. You've mentioned Coach Gibson, you brought up, you know, cigars with Coach Doran. Are, are they tipping you off on which guys are our priority or are, you know, I don't know, your football background. Are you evaluating players? Are you crunching tape and saying, hey, this transfer is the guy like, what, what's the coaches like as far as the coaching staff and you know, who, who I talk to and whatnot. It's, it's really, they have a recruiting team and a talent, talent evaluation, all those things. And, uh, it, it's defensively, you have guys that are reaching out to, to the school because they want to learn under Tony Gibson and, you know, even all of our coaches now, I mean, we people need to understand this, this coaching staff that we've assembled is, it's, I think the best coaching staff at one time that the school has ever had. And if you really think about that, we've had some really big name coaches, you know, come through here, Anai what he did and Anai is a what he did to, to put points on the board and, and I mean, that just shows like, imagine what he can do with what he's about to have, right? I mean, he's, he's very, very good. He does TJ man, that guy, he, he is so he's a great guy to be around, you know, but he's just a very positive, exciting guy. But the offensive lineman, you know, his development of offensive linemen is like legendary, right? And coach wiles on the defensive line like, I mean, we have the Miss the Forest, we from top to bottom, we have a staff that is just bad ass man. And Doran, you know, the fans again, stock market, some fans, I love them some, hey, you gotta understand, man. Other schools have been doing nil for a long time. We haven't, we have been scrapping and clawing and we've been building something. We built a culture, you know, where, where I get involved, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily get like tipped off or anything, but I do follow recruiting, you know, Steve Williams, uh, inside tech sports man, I think he's the best in the business. And I, uh, I, I follow recruiting and so, you know, when I start to hear, you know, so and says names are visiting blah, blah, blah, you know, I'll go do my research in the event that that is somebody that, uh, you know, I need to know and I need to know what their family's background is. And, you know, by the time that I, uh, by the time I get involved, you know, trying to arm myself, if coaches go into a recruit's home with his family, we love your son. You know, we're gonna care for your son, we blah, blah, blah, and that individual makes a decision that he thinks is best and goes to a different school and they don't ever hear from you again. That's pretty disingenuous, right? And I tell them like in business, if I lose a, a contract to a big client, you know, I don't just never call him again. I, I find out what I, what do we do wrong, you know, what, what can we do better next time? Stay in touch because you never know, like you never know when there might be an opportunity again. You know, and, and I think this is a great example. They, uh they obviously having hometown guys, you know, that uh have teammates and stuff that, that have carried the relationship through. Um But, you know, the same with that, just do your research man. Do you do treat it like a, a project, treat it like a, a contract that, that you really wanna win and arm yourself with as much information as you can. I know we've taken up a lot of your time and I appreciate it. Um uh one more here because I want to let you kind of flex your, your fandom a bit. Uh You know, we, we all follow each other on social media. I saw, what was it a couple of weeks ago, right? You have the Go for Mobile Hat on for those of you watching on our youtube page. Um And you basically said like that, hey, the goal is for go for Mobile to blow up enough that I, that I can, you know, be a big part of driving NC state to, to a championship. Um Why? Right? Like so many people build their businesses with, you know, I, I want my kids, kids, kids, kids to have a billion dollars and, and you know, you're looking at it with a different kind of cash out, a different kind of, of benefit, a different kind of legacy. Well, why? Oh, man, you know, I feel like I should sit on a couch for this one or lay on a couch for this one. There's, it's deep rooted me. No, I uh this actually is kind of, I guess ties into it. I moved to North Carolina when I was going into second grade or third grade when it was 1987. And again, man, growing up in a uh you know, not the best uh environment, what not. Um I, I moved here, I had a heavy New York accent. The, the Yankees were the worst team in baseball. The Braves were awesome. Uh I got picked on, you know, a lot and I had to fight like every day and uh everyone was like a, a Duke and Carolina fan and uh my uncle Kevin, uh who's, you know, probably the largest male figure in my life. Uh He went to NC State and he graduated in 83 and he sent me, you know, he used to send me the coke cans and the newspaper cooking. And so they were already because my uncle Kevin, I mean, I already kind of like had a thing for him. But um in 87 when they won the AC C tournament, uh I remember just thinking like I like this team. You know, this, this feels good because these kids in my class didn't, you know, and, uh, just that mentality. So that's carried through, uh, and I've made some of the, the best friendships of my life, you know, in that parking lot and I named my son Carter after Carter Finley Stadium. I missed, I haven't missed a game in 17 years and you can imagine the, the heartbreak that's been involved in that. But there is something about this place that feels, uh, just very, uh, it feels very safe. I don't know, weird. But, uh, it's, it's a, it's a great place, man. It's a, it's full of great people. You know, there's no one, not no one, but for the most part our fan base, everyone I've come across it. It's come as you are, it's not no one judges you by color of your skin or what you have or what you don't have. It's just a group of people that suffer together. Um, and, you know, my Children, uh, I, I'm, I'm fortunate beyond what I deserve, you know, and, and, you know, I want to, uh, give back, you know, in, in any ways that I can, uh, and so, you know, with Gopher and, and any other business, right? But Gopher seems to be the one that, uh, uh right now appears to be on the right trajectory for that to happen. And I knew that day and I, I don't, I never forget it, uh, that they had just read the papers too much. Right. And they thought that they could walk on the field and win games and there was, that chip on their shoulder was not there. You know, it was this, we're showing up and you, you have to earn that, you know, and I knew and the ECU game fruit, right. What is happening here? Um, and, and with the talent that we have with the staff that we have with the lessons learned, I think that the staff has had from two years ago, be excited, you know, because we are going to be really good and, and this is not, this is, we've never seen a team that's, that's gonna be like this one on the field defense and offense. Um but to set the bar here with, uh and uh the only way I could, the only way that we can sustain this is for people to, to, to contribute, to get on board, this bar was set really high with just a very minimal participation by people. Again, imagine if, if everybody got involved, what we could do here, it would be, it would be special and it would be the beginning of why not? Like that's why I would say, why not, you know, like Clemson before Deshaun Watson class, you know, Clemson was the same boat, you know, Alabama, you know, there was a time before saving where Alabama, you know, why not, why not NC State be the next dynasty? Right. And, and I, I don't, I don't think, uh, our fan base believes it, you know, and, but if someone said to me right now, how much would you pay to, to watch NC state win a national championship or even, you know, conference championship? I don't know, but I know that I have the opportunity to, to find out and I, I don't think that people, uh, because again, nil is such a, a dirty word. Right? And that's, that's our sole purpose. The reason it's taken us three years to get to this point is because we want to do things the right way. We have the Washington Post and New York Times are doing stories on us, right? Because of our life skills camps and, and, uh, the things that we're doing for the athletes to set them up for life after football and then to treat them our slogan, get to know the human under the helmet, right? Because, uh, uh, before nil, if I was sitting in the, in the stands and someone dropped a pass or missed a block or whatever, I would be like God, division one athlete, you have one job. Right. But getting to know these families, getting to know these athletes, I know that there's no one on the planet that wanted to make that play more and it changes the way you watch the game. It's a positive, uh, you know, uplifting feeling and when everyone starts to feel that I'm telling you, it changes good things happen. So we're trying to change that narrative of nil being dirty and it's a daily battle, but, you know, we're staying the course and we're starting to see the results. So I can tell you this. If, uh, if you do get the chance to watch that championship, there'll be a lot more people want pictures with you to go back to that, that story at the beginning of the pod. There'll be a lot more requests. I'm gonna look like a nick Nolte in his. Uh, it's a good, it's a good look if it's after a championship. Um, well, Pack Tom, we appreciate you for taking the time to join us here on Pack therapy, uh, be in touch. Anything you need. Let us know. Appreciate it, man. Thank you guys.