Greatest coach - Dean Smith or Mike Krzyzewski?

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  • Brackettville Aug 11, 2009
    Sports Legend

    K

  • michaelcone Aug 17, 2009
    Bench Warmer

    SPORTING NEWS' TOP 50 COACHES

    1. John Wooden, college basketball
    2. Vince Lombardi, NFL
    3. Bear Bryant, college football
    4. Phil Jackson, NBA
    5. Don Shula, NFL
    6. Red Auerbach, NBA
    7. Scotty Bowman, NHL 8. Dean Smith, college basketball 9. Casey Stengel, MLB 10. Knute Rockne, college football 11. Pat Summitt, women's college basketball 12. Paul Brown, NFL 13. Joe Paterno, college football 14. George Halas, NFL 15. Chuck Noll, NFL 16. Bob Knight, college basketball 17. Joe Gibbs, NFL 18. Tom Landry, NFL 19. Mike Krzyzewski, college basketball 20. Bill Belichick, NFL 21. Adolph Rupp, college basketball 22. Joe McCarthy, MLB 23. Eddie Robinson, college football 24. Bobby Bowden, college football 25. John McGraw, MLB 26. Bill Walsh, NFL 27. Woody Hayes, college football 28. Connie Mack, MLB 29. Bud Wilkinson, college football 30. Pat Riley, NBA 31. Pete Newell, college basketball 32. Joe Torre, MLB 33. Bill Parcells, NFL 34. Tom Osborne, college football 35. Walter Alston, MLB 36. Bo Schembechler, college football 37. Toe Blake, NHL 38. Sparky Anderson, MLB 39. Al Arbour, NHL 40. Amos Alonzo Stagg, college football 41. Tony La Russa, MLB 42. Geno Auriemma, women's college basketball 43. Dick Irvin, NHL 44. Ara Parseghian, college football 45. Chuck Daly, NBA 46. Bobby Cox, MLB 47. Hank Iba, college basketball 48. Tommy Lasorda, MLB 49. Gregg Popovich, NBA 50. Herb Brooks, NHL I like this. I wonder when it came out.

  • twhopkins2 Aug 21, 2009
    Towel Boy

    X's and O's has to go to Coach Smith.

    Motivator has to go to Coach K.

    They BOTH are Hall of Fame coaches. 'Nuff said.

  • Chatham Adam Aug 22, 2009
    Veteran

    View quoted thread


    Nice one, Larrys080. GBJr's attempted retort, above, is about the stupidest thing a dookie has uttered since "Take 'em, Trajan!" No, wait. There was that "G is the real victim!" comment, as well. But GBJr's is way up there.

  • heelsfaninraleigh Aug 22, 2009
    All Star

    View quoted thread


    How about backing up your claims with facts???? Tell me how many burger boys Dean had versus K.

    You go on to show your ignorance when you say Dean would have had one less title if not for the technical against Chris Webber. YOU seem to forget that only seconds remained in the game, Carolina was UP by 2 points and Dean had done such a great coaching job that Webber was flustered enough to call a timeout when Michigan was out of timeouts!!! You ASSUME Michigan would have scored a 3-pointer and won the game. Should the ref have ignored then rule and not called the technical??? I'm sure you would have been the first one howling if the situation had been reversed. If Carolina had been down by two, called a timeout they didn't have and the refs didn't call the tech, what would you have said???

    As another poster stated - with facts to back him up - head-to-head Dean > K!!!

  • clintrogers Aug 22, 2009
    Towel Boy

    First I will preface my comment by saying I am a Carolina fan.

    First this is not a fair comparison, comparing Mike to Roy would be more realistic for Mike. Not that Mike would fair any better but it is completely ludacris to compare Coach K to Dean Smith. To begin with Dean Smith built the second winningest program in college basketball history second only to Kentucky because with Rupp they got an earlier start. The fact is the only reason Coach K was able to recruit players to that little private school in Durham was because they played Carolina on tv twice a year. So it is impossible to compare the grasshopper to the master. Dean laid the groundwork for basketball in this region. Coach K and Roy Williams are both benefactors of his presence. As simple look at head to head games it is clear Dean wins that battle with 14 more wins...Please bear in mind most of Coach K's wins came late in Dean's career when Carolina was playing Sophmores against Duke's seniors. Coach K is a great coach and ambassador for the game but he is qualified to carry Dean's jock strap and he will tell you this. Coach K made a name for himself in the 90's when Duke was the only top tier teamin the country that held onto it;s players for 4 years. With Brand and Jason Williams leaving early and opening the flood gates for future Duke players their dominance ended. Duke will never consistently beat Carolina until Roy retires. Roy is simply put a better coach than Mike, does he get better recruits? only if he earns it as Duke no longer has to take a back seat to anyone. So if he has better players it is to his credit. Mike will always have a consistent winning program but the 90's are over and Duke like every other program in the country will have to chase Roy...if you want to know the meaning of staggering look at Roy'S lifetime winning percentage...

  • ArmyTrucker Aug 23, 2009
    Towel Boy

    View quoted thread


    If youre talking about the Michigan game. UNC had that one TO or not. And Dukes first natiional championship was flawed by an extremely bad no call against Christy Laettner against Kentucky. Plus UNC lost against Kansas which Duke woulda lost that Championship game. Duke may play the rest of the country better but they have always been second fiddle to UNC. In the dark Doherty ages is the only time Duke had the advantage but now that Roy is here he owns K-Rat, hands down. Look for Roy to eclipe K-rat in wins and championships. Then there will be no discussion.

  • sdking1112 Aug 23, 2009
    Towel Boy

    The big difference between Dean and Coack K - Coach K is more about himself than Dean Smith ever could be.

  • cnyrsjms Aug 23, 2009
    Towel Boy

    Heels, NCAA need to check into your program for violations to many mcdonalds players

  • cnyrsjms Aug 23, 2009
    Towel Boy

    coach k

  • Duke_Blue_For_Lyfe Aug 23, 2009
    Pro

    For sure...Coack K

  • larrys080 Aug 23, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Coach K had more on his roster last year than Roy did. Lol. This thread is all about what shade of blue you bleed. Both coaches have done so many great things for this sport. Lets just all agree theres no shade of red in this topic.

  • MR EVANS Aug 23, 2009
    Rookie

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12096928

  • Chatham Adam Aug 23, 2009
    Veteran

    View quoted thread


    Great points, Clintrogers. But please don't sell Dean short on his successes against K down the stretch. Actually,he won something like 8 out of his last 10 against the dookies.

  • Brackettville Aug 24, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Hold on Chief. Roy needs many...AND THE ROCK MEANS MANY...more wins to even get into K's category. Much less eclipse him. Check the numbers. And for those smart azzes out there, I am not referring to Roy's record against K. I am talking about wins and championships.
    Now, sit down.

  • onyourheels2 Aug 24, 2009
    Sports Legend

    i'll look at winning %'s. that tells it all. ROY will be the best.

  • kennywalters Aug 24, 2009
    Sports Legend

    Due to age, Roy will probably never catch K on total wins (K started coaching at a much younger age than Roy). He has every opportunity to catch and surpass K in terms of national championships if he continues with the success he has had since coming to UNC.

  • duane11 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    k 3 nc's dean 2 nc's roy 2 nc's not what will happen, what is now

  • duane11 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    greatest coach....Wizard of Westwood

  • onyourheels2 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    lol at john wooden. he was nothing until sam gilbert started buying players.

  • kennywalters Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    Actually, Wooden has always maintained that he and the administration asked Gilbert to leave players alone. Unfortunately, the institution has little control over what people not associated with it do.

  • Brackettville Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    K has a better NCAA Tournament winning percentage than Dean, and Roy.

    http://www.marchmadnessmix.com/2008/03/list-of-active-coaches-with-highest.html

    Eat your heart out. THE winning percentage that matters. K still has them both.
    Give K credit....no wait. Keep your credit. K has records.

  • onyourheels2 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    especially that 30 pt blowout. i also hear they may take away the ff with maggette on it beacause he was being paid. dook will never be in the class of the HEELS. RED HEADED STEPCHILDREN. LOL!

  • Brackettville Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    First of all, it was 27 points, to Clemson, on 2/4/09. I don't know what that has to do with this thread, but since you want to bring up blowouts...
    Let's look at the worst losses, in terms of blowouts, that either of our teams has suffered to each other. You will probably be shocked. Go ahead and do your research and try to prove me wrong. I have my little Duke bible right here and it never tells me a lie :)
    2/29/52 Duke blasts UNC by 30 points 94-64 (at Duke)
    2/29/64 Duke DESTROYS UNC by 35 points 104-69 (at UNC)
    3/11/01 Duke spanks UNC by 26 points for the ACC Tournament Championship...then takes the National Title. btw - I have that T-shirt. I know, I know...you have a NT T-shirt this year. Let's get that out of the way.

    As for Duke's worst lost to UNC:
    2/13/60 Duke gets it handed to them by UNC to the tune of 26 points 58-84 (at UNC)

  • onyourheels2 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    i'm talking about the 103 to 73 loss to unlv. that record still stands.

  • Brackettville Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Duke did the next best thing the very next year....beat them, then YOUR boy Roy and won the NT. The first of back-to-back NT's. I hardly think he is losing any sleep over it.

  • onyourheels2 Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    unlv made more money in 91 than the ncaa did.

  • Brackettville Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    They had to, in order to pay their 28 year old players.

  • kennywalters Aug 25, 2009
    Sports Legend

    Hey man, Larry Johnson was only 27 1/2!!!!

  • sdixon7 Aug 25, 2009
    Towel Boy

    At chapel hill we have retire coach dean smith has done alot at Carolina.Coach dean
    smith to Coach G.to roy Williams simple bests coachs to come to UNC in pasts.
    Under coach dean we went to USA O where won the gold m we had micheal jorden to james Worthy phil ford.
    To Coach K he simple doesn't make cut.

    Wimington,NC

  • bigheel2k Aug 25, 2009
    All Star

    ^Man, this guy almost makes Conrad look intelligent.

  • BlueDevilFan Aug 27, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    ?

  • StunGunn Aug 27, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    I was just thinking the same thing!

  • clint Aug 27, 2009
    Towel Boy

    K no question about it. Look at his season scores. Please stay at duke.....for a long time!

  • Brackettville Sep 2, 2009
    Sports Legend

    LOL....LMAO....Whoa! What?

  • Brackettville Sep 2, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    I was referring to this person's .....comments.

  • Tar Heels Victory-NCAA CHAMPIONS Sep 2, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Maybe this poster does not speak English well or maybe they are speaking in code?
    o=Olympics and m=Medal. I could be way off here, though.

  • StunGunn Sep 2, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread



    Only conrad could crack the code on this one.

  • tarheels4 Sep 3, 2009
    Veteran

    View quoted thread


    Dean Smith coached most of his career outside the modern era of the 64 team field. For his first 15 years he had to win the ACC tourney just to make the NCAA tournament. So if K played under the same set of rules he would have made the NCAA tournament just THREE times his first 15 years coaching at dook (wiping out his first title). By contrast Dean made the NCAAs SEVEN times his first 15 years.

  • GinaH Sep 3, 2009
    Towel Boy

    Dean Smith hands down!

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Yet another great argument.

    Sir, you will need a receipt to prove you bought that merchandise at this store.
    Here is my proof.
    Where?
    Look, my hands are down on the counter.
    Oh, okay...here is your sign, I mean refund.

  • 4tarheels Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    It is apples and oranges due to tournament eligibility rules and field expansion. I'll take Dean because he transcended the many changes and remained successful. He won before widespread integration, he won after, he won before the shot clock, he won after, he won before 3-point shot, he won after, he won when freshman were ineligible, he won after, he won when players stayed 4 years, he won when players starting leaving after 1-2 years. Dean adapted and won, and he never took a year off for ailing back and left the resulting losses on an assistants record.

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    I do agree with some of the items you mentioned. I don't really agree with all the before/after items. Before/after does not equal a great coach. Many coaches did the same thing (before/after).

    I do take exception to your comment concerning K's back injury and losses on Gaudet's record. It's funny how you guys keep throwing that around. When K left Gaudet was promoted to interim head coach. The key word is "coach". Why, would any coach, in any sport, in any country want credit for games they did not coach? That is simply foolish. When Lute Olsen (Arizona) went out Kevin O'Neill was named interim head coach. Get it..."coach"? Kevin O'Neill was credited with his W/L record. That is because he was the coach. It's pretty simple to the world, unless you are a uncch fan.

    Now, just for fun let's apply the uncch (your) logic to some hypothetical scenarios. We will call this logic the uncch-invisible man on the bench or simply UNCCHIMB. As we all know K is close to breaking Dean's overall wins record. Using UNCCHIMB he would be four games closer. Cool. Now, let's say that K is maybe one season away from Dean's record, but really would like to rest. No problem. Using UNCCHIMB he can let someone else coach the team until such time that they get the needed number of wins to break Dean's record. Cool. Speaking of UNCCHIMB, we all knew Guthridge would not be uncch's head coach long term. Dean should have let Gut coach for the first 107 games and then return for one game, the NCAA title game in 2000. Using the UNCCHIMB method, Dean could credit 80 more wins to his record. Sound silly, huh? Now, look in the mirror. Oh, how about this...this should make you happy. Let's say K retires three games shy of breaking Dean's record. Using UNCCHIMB he could simply reach out and credit four wins to his record. Now, what do you think? Good plan, huh?

  • 1993 Tarheel Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    We all have our own opinions...typically swayed by our allegiance. The Heels vs. du...we can all come up with something for this argument. Even if you asked Coach Smith or Coach K (du for those who don't know who I am referring to)...they, being the great basketball politicians they both are, would talk more about the other. There are too many variables on both sides that have an effect on the stats...and that, during their time's together, could change from game to game. I am a Heels fan to the end. But, knowing what I know and the nature of this rivalry between them - in my opinion, this would be based off of the results face-to-face. In a Smack-Talk forum, it's fun to battle our opinions, but if Coach Smith and Coach K were to honestly tell us, I bet it would be based off of their head-to-head battles...which we know Coach Smith leads.

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Sure, we all know head-to-head Dean has more. What about post-season head-to-head? K has more. What about National Championships? K has more.

    So, in other words, if beating Duke is your goal, then Dean is your man.
    If winning National Championships and beating your rival in the post season is your goal, then K is your man.

    Dean was a great coach and terrific person, but I'll stick with K.

  • Chatham Adam Sep 7, 2009
    Veteran

    "Back injury." Right! A bad season was unfolding and suddenly he turned his back on his team until it was over. Then he ran off key members of his staff once he returned. Usually he just throws a player or two under the bus, not an entire team.

    Funny how some DU fans like BDF are so loyal to one who has proven so lacking in the loyalty department.

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    I also wanted to mention my opinion has nothing to do with my allegiance for Duke. I'm very objective and always look at things from both sides. If Dean had more National Championships I would say he is the better coach.

    That being said, if K were to retire today, then you could have a good debate that would basically boil down to more NCs versus more overall wins. Personally, I think more NCs are greater than more overall wins. Therefore the debate is no longer about K v Dean. It's now about what is more important; National Championships or overall wins. Now, if I had no allegiance to any team and could magically pick a coach that would do one or the other (NCs or overall wins) I would take the NCs. Does anyone agree or disagree?

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Why would I not be loyal to my coach you idiot? Have you been in perfect health your entire life? Can I fire you if you get the flu? Didn't Tyler miss some games last season? How could you still be loyal to him when he was not loyal to you? That is a pretty stupid argument, if you can even call it that.

    By the way, kind of like the DU reference to Duke University that you and IBM have started using. :-)

  • 1993 Tarheel Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    This is a debate forum, so IMO, you have a valid opinion BlueDevilFan (or BDF)....as we all do. I don't think anyone (who knows what they are realistically talking about) could say either is not in the top 3 or 4 ever in college basketball coaching and each's accomplishments.

    I'm just going by "Coach Smith vs Coach K". I have lived in sports competition and from a person vs person agenda....especially when it as 2 greats that knew that, I lived by "How did I do vs that person?!?". (Players still want the win more, but coaches, well....the win would speak for itself).

  • BlueDevilFan Sep 7, 2009
    Sports Legend

    View quoted thread


    Fair enough. Like I've said, if head-to-head is more important then Dean is your guy. I've always liked Dean. From what I understand he seldom/never used foul language at/towards his players. I wish more coaches could be like that today. I met him in a parking lot at an ACC tourney in the early 80s and he was very nice (even though I has proudly wearing my Duke attire). He was and always will be a class act that will never be duplicated.

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